Why is Bukkit/Minecraft server 20 ticks per second?

Discussion in 'Plugin Development' started by IamHD, Apr 8, 2014.

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    Why 20? Because it was designed that way. Does that answer your question? Can you stop now?
    kittyPL likes this.
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    It can for example tvs and films are using higher and higher frame rates like over 1000 and studies have shown that if shown this footage it can causes headaches etc as at that many fps a swing could be seen swinging every frame, in the human eye it tends to blur and films are finding ways to add motion blur into movies, I think I found all this out from a vsauce video called film or something like that.
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    IamHD You want a discussion right? Well, then give people a chance to discuss or we (at least I) will simply ignore you when your messages contain offensive language. Additionally you interpret without questioning.

    Full quote then (silent assumtion in your head) -> sentence that contains offensive language -> attempt to find a reason why you said that but failed.

    It seems to me that you think we can read your mind before you post a reply.

    I was reading through pages 1 and two before posting messasge #67. I thought this would be enough to give enough hints about possible intentions why they made it 20 and not something higher.

    Obiously it wasn't enough and you followed with message #69 where you simply say "this does not answer my question" without even trying to explain which parts did not answer your question or at what point you lost me.

    This is called a response! What you do is saying "go away, you dont help at all". Have i done anything wrong? Am im not allowed to answer here? Then maybe start a private conversation and invite people you want to talk to!

    Well ... i tried to ignore that. Tried to give more details assuming you might catch up but i failed to understand you where not even following me in the first part. You did not even try and instantly repeat yourself over and over again. Maybe trying to argue could help or trying to respond properly would help....

    That is probably also why RawCode does not want to talk to you since you attacked him more than once without reason and others!

    Its like you want to tell us "look i do know so much about game engines" ... we dont (at least i dont) care! You wanted help! We do not have to answer to you! Its our good will nothing you can just take "for given".

    Anyways back to your follow up to #67. After i tried to explain (starting a discussion) you posted number #73 where you tell me ... thats whats i interpret from your words (!):

    "You stupid morron. You dare to question me? We (are you referring to a higher beeing here?) already know everything you said .... (wow there was no reference where this was clear. No one else said that first. So there was not even a reason to mention that). Also why are you so stupid? Of course i will change the whole game mechanics .. increasing fixed points like how long a game will be in real time. If TPS will be changed you need to change everything else too! Logic!"

    You never said that before.

    Counter assumtion: Why should it be 20 minutes? You tell me that TPS its not related to time but you also say "1 in-game day should be 20 minutes in real time"

    How is this a logical assumtion known to the reader of your previous post?

    Again instead of giving counter arguments you just say "this is wrong in so many ways" but you dont say why...." -

    Let me tell you what i read "You are retarded! Blasphemy! You questioned me again! You are wrong but you will die not knowing what it was" - Is that how you want to lead a discussion??

    From what i get so far you think that having a 20 cycle count per tick is poor design and also say that they are bad programmers ... , yet you don't give any reason why it should be higher.

    I really dont understand you.
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    Nuh uh!

    Minecraft is too realistic with all those floating blocks and trees, pigs watching you, creepers exploding on your farm, and stuff like that, makes me wonder how hard notch worked to preserve life in a game.
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    Ok, look, if you actually read through out the whole post, I had a great discussion with those who actual know what they were talking about. You, simply don't know what your talking about, but you insist that you do. That is the simple truth and it's why after continuous debating I just had to give up! And then you guys said " oh I'm Otta here cause HE's a troll". On well then, just stop replying because I give up on you.

    Yes, it doesn't have to be 20 minutes :) but you think that's a counter assumption, because you don't know what you're talking about. If you have read our replies you'd see on page one I talked about a lot of the reasons why we should have higher tick rates. For instance reply #12 . I didn't think that you can read my mind, I thought you knew what was assumed you knew, and you read the replies what you were assumed you read.

    Look, why is do we hit puberty at the age of 15? Saying it was designed that it was designed by god doesn't help the question! Saying can we change it to the age of 30? What benefits and what drawbacks will it have is what this topic is all about.

    Those replying thinking that they're a smart ass doesn't help the question. If you wanted this post to stop stop replying! This post was concluded a long time ago.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
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    "The low frequency game environment updates causes the client to see teleportation like movements"
    You have just prooven that there is no point in arguing with you. Want 60tps? Go write your own game.
    You told you know the difference between TPS and FPS. Now you have just prooven that you don't.

    "Minecraft is poorly coded"
    I'd say it's a kind of masterpiece, with such optimized code.

    "I had a great discussion with those who actual know what they were talking about."
    Come on. You have just hit the bedrock. Twice.

    "Look, why is do we hit puberty at the age of 15?"
    What a great example. Please, go find yourself a nice place to think about it, and don't bother anyone here.

    "Those replying thinking that they're a smart ass doesn't help the question."
    So why the hell are you replying then?

    I bet both RawCode and lycano know a lot more about programming than you do. I really don't care why it was 20, if it was delta based nothing would change... It's only you saying "HEY, LOOK HOW MUCH I KNOW, I CAN DO BETTER THAN MOJANG!".

    I feel it looks like this:
    IamHD: Guys, why do the cars have 4 wheels?
    Someone: I think it's becouse it's a good balance between stablility and controll.
    IamHD: Okay, but they could have 3, right?
    Someone: Yep.
    IamHD: So why 4?
    Someone: They were designed that way, and since it works there is no need to change that.
    IamHD: LOL man, you don't get it!!! 3 wheels, you know what Im sayin??? 3!!! not 4!!! That would be a lot better!
    Someone: There was a lot of testing, and...
    IamHD: Shut up! Stupid trolls dunno what they talk about! You don't know anything, cars were poorly designed!
    Someone: Then go and proove everyone is wrong using 4 wheeled cars.
    IamHD: NO! Just look how much I know about cars! You dunno anything trolls! Go away, you don't get my

    Someone: Come on people, lets leave that freak alone.
    IamHD: HAHAHA! You have no arguments, so you just walk away? Okay, all right!

    You are allowed to have your own opinion and I'm allowed not to give a single f*** about it.
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    Another smart ass (Look at that ending word "brilliance", just undeniable smart ass), just feeling happy about not knowing something. just stop please. You don't understand the essence of this question. I didn't say the server were poorly designed, I CONCLUDED WHAT PEOPLE REPLIED! Please read the replies before replying your self.
    The example should be more like:
    why do cars have square wheels! It's so bumpy! Why can't we make it rounded with custom car length? Can we make a limousine?
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    Mojang didn't choose it too big 20ticks, notch did. And when they took over it'd take tool long to recode, now let's see if we can get this topic locked since you have had your answer and its only going to get worse in here.
    Gater12 likes this.
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    I would like more intelligent people giving their thoughts about this, but look at all the people that follows up! All coming in with swag
    #1 RawCode "No body reads!"
    #2 lycano "Oh, I know that it ticks 1/20 second and a day is 24000.Oh hows does that not answer your question? I don't get it? You overconfident idiot IamHD"
    #3 kittyPL "You're making a big deal of it dude, let it be 20, it's good. "
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    I was stating that mojang didn't choose 20 as you said, notch did.
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    Sorry, I didn't mean that you're one of them. I was just saying we shouldn't lock this post because of these people. I totally agree with what you said, it's exactly what I said on reply #23
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    Why Ticks?
    Because a world needs to have smallest unit of time and a fixed tickrate is a easy way to get there as you can be safe: 1 tick = smallest time unit. (This should also be true for delta time engines, but in a way more abstract way - the smallest unit there should be something like a CPU cycle or so)
    I'm pretty sure that even our universe has a smallest possible time unit (-> a tickrate).

    In a blocky game like Minecraft where almost everything is in a fixed grid, it makes sense to use the fixed tickrate, as a block (e.g. water) is either at one position, or at another but never between them. Also, it should be nicer to code, than delta time if you want a fast result. (And MC is not the cleanest coded project of all time.)

    Why 20?
    Because the God of Minecraft (Notch) said so. It's an ordinary magic value, that Notch decided to set because he though it was a nice value. In the end 20 seems to be a pretty nice number, for logic calculation. Higher TPS would need more resources, and MC is not the least resource consuming game in the world. ;)
    I doubt Mojang will increase the TPS in the future. I don't know how the engine is built, but if they can't do it now by changing one value, it will require a lot of work to implement it.
    Also, never touch a running system.
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    Well answered :) So basically it's too late to do anything about the low 20 TPS XD
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    Locked. This got very out-of-hand and warnings have been distributed accordingly.
    kittyPL and breezeyboy like this.
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