Why are you all still making Bukkit plugins?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Tirelessly, Sep 24, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    d3v1n302418

    Personally I think that even if bukkit does update, your better of switching to MCServer. C++ will probably be better for plugin development as it is much faster :p
     
  2. Offline

    mythbusterma

    d3v1n302418

    What's your reasoning behind this statement? Bukkit and Bukkit derivative servers never had a particular problem with actual instruction speed, and C++ just opens up a nightmare of memory leaks for plugin developers that don't what memory management is. You practically have to use Java (or any other language with automatic garbage collection) if you want plugins to be made that won't make your server hog up resources like no other. It's a good idea in theory, but the actual difference in the work that the server does between Java and C++ is negligible at best, and if you really are that concerned you can use JNI anyway.
     
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  3. Offline

    Paxination

    Not to mention the time frame. Any idea how long of a wait thats gonna be? Its gonna be months and months before anything with a decent working api emerges.

    And, posted this in Plugin Dev? Seriously......
     
  4. Offline

    d3v1n302418

    mythbusterma Uhm, this is just personal preference... I didn't cram MCServer and C++ down your throat, I just stated my opinion. There is no need to start an argument, because clearly thats what your trying to do.
     
  5. Offline

    mythbusterma

    d3v1n302418

    I'm asking you to justify your stance, as, frankly, it's completely unfounded.
     
  6. Offline

    d3v1n302418

    mythbusterma That's not at all what you seemed to be attempting. If you don't like my OPINION(key word here) please ignore it. If you don't like the compilation system of C++(which I agree isn't the greatest) then code in java, I code in both and I ENJOY coding in both. Just ignore my opinion if you don't agree. No need to fight on these forums, they're designed to help people.
     
  7. Offline

    mythbusterma

    d3v1n302418

    I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I have nothing against the compilation system of C++, which I personally feel is superior to Java. I just think it isn't a good idea for a server to be using it for reasons stated above. I didn't attack you or your opinion, but asked you to defend it against reasonable criticism, this isn't fighting, this is debate. Forums are for debate and discussion of ideas, and I pointed out why I disagree. No need to be mad.
     
  8. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Tirelessly I'm still wondering what imagined right it is you think you have.
     
  9. Offline

    Paxination

    http://forums.bukkit.org/forums/plugin-development.5/

    Looks like you couldnt be more wrong. People are still going with plugins here.

    http://www.spigotmc.org/forums/plugin-development.52/

    And lets not forget spigot, which is based off of bukkit.

    Just like the energizer bunny....They keep going and going and going.......
     
  10. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Actually, you don't give up the right to say anything you want when joining the forums, as no such right exists, nor do I foresee such a right ever existing. It would be a horrible right.
     
  11. Offline

    Tirelessly

    Skionz

    I have the right to free speech. Bukkit is a private entity and can control what I say or do on their property. I have the right to ask what you all are doing, and unless they decide that they don't want me to say that here, there's nothing you can do about it. Aside from complain.
     
  12. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Tirelessly Freedom of speech isn't the right to say anything you want. It's a right to not be arrested for what you say. There's a big difference between the two, but think about it: If the best argument you can come up with to defend yourself is that "I legally can't be arrested for saying it", what does that say about your argument in the first place?
     
    pookeythekid likes this.
  13. Offline

    Paxination

  14. Offline

    Tirelessly

    I know what freedom of speech is. I can't be arrested for saying it, and bukkit is allowing me to say it, therefore I can say it.
     
  15. Offline

    Paxination

    Maybe you havent got the point yet, just because you "CAN" say something, doesnt mean you "SHOULD" say it.
     
  16. Offline

    Exit151

    Because it's the only solution out there. Period. Show me another project ANYWHERE near the level of professionalism and "completeness" that compares. You can't. That's why there are tons of server admins hitting this site daily, hoping, praying and waiting for good word for this project. Period.
    And yes, there is Forge, which is about as close as it gets to this, but Forge and Bukkit (as you know) are made to be run differently. Most Bukkit'ers don't want their users having to deal with server-side/client-side mods, having to match versions up and dealing with all that. We liked stock clients connecting to plugin-enabled servers. Simple and clean.
     
  17. Offline

    pookeythekid

    True, there currently isn't really a mod as good as CraftBukkit. But just give it some time, and there are some potential champions out there. But only one shall rise to the top... *-*
     
  18. Offline

    asofold

    It seems that the Spigot tteam is working towards an "independent" server-mod version for 1.8 - a version of Spigot. So Bukkit does not appear to be too much dead yet, however there could in theory be diferent views on who/how the API is continued, thinking of Glowstone, Spigote and maybe other projects working with Bukkit.
     
  19. Offline

    pookeythekid

    asofold I'd say the only way CraftBukkit has any chance of survival is if Wolvereness, for some reason as potentially crazy as the reason he issued it, lifts the DMCA. And then those who contributed less may or may not be willing to relicense their code, but if about half of them relicense, that's less code than all of Wolve's gone. As for the other mods, I'm not exactly sure how those are going to continue without major legal problems. I'd think that they'd have to completely make their own server client, without using Minecraft Server code, and then make API off of it. I know that's what this one mod called Trident is doing.
     
  20. Offline

    asofold

    I am quite sure Spigot will not be affected, they know what they are doing. Glowstone is an implementation of the Minecraft server itself, so there is not much to gain in terms of DMCA, though features are somewhat sparse still'.

    Concerning CraftBukkit, i assume that either court or other mods will decide this "battle with no Bukkit", because the cause of the DMCA being possible can't be resolved easily, even if currently conflicting code gets removed.

    Now if other mods take over (e.g. Spigot, Glowstone, Trident, how many ever..), it'll be interesting to see how (Bukkit-) API development will progress. In theory the Bukkit project could have a partial come-back to continue API-development, but other mods could also be contesting and finally might diverge.

    In any case there is a medium-term future of Bukkit without CraftBukkit. How long that lasts and when exactly it starts i can't tell, probably other mods provide extra layers for providing Bukkit-compatibilitiy, so that eventually most plugins that need best performance will switch to the "native API" of either mod, phasing out the appeal of maintaining the Bukkit-API compatibility.
     
  21. Offline

    WHQ

    Tirelessly

    Because Bukkit is love, bukkit is life!

    And because of the awesome community :)
     
    mrCookieSlime likes this.
  22. Offline

    bwfcwalshy Retired Staff

    I still code because it is fun, and it is a really nice hobby. I mostly do it because I love seeing how things work and if I do this what will this other thing do. My main that got me into coding plugins was that just some code can change the game completely.

    As a side note, I will not be using Sponge, Glowstone or any of these I will be using Spigot unless I see something really different that will make it much better than Spigot and has a bigger community behind it.
     
  23. Offline

    pookeythekid

    asofold How exactly don't other mods have problems? Are they not open source as well as implementing Minecraft Server code in a similar (if not the same) way that CraftBukkit does? And if they are both of these, I would think that they're destined to reach the same state of collapse that (Craft)Bukkit is going through right now.

    Edit: Wait a second, I just now read that Spigot is completely recoding the Bukkit API or whatnot that was in it so that it can get around the DMCA. Of course, recoding it; how else do you get around conflicted code?
     
  24. Offline

    asofold

    They spent a lot on legal advice, and they are determined to provide Spigot 1.8, they are smart, they invest tons of time, they are backed up by quite a vibrant-something community, and so on.

    So i assume they chose the optimal way to recode as little as necessary parts of whatever component they have to change. You have to consider, that MC 1.8 changes that much, that you could as well recode lots of CraftBukkit, though i don't know what exactly of Bukkit/CB they would have to recode in the end. Copyrightability of an API (design / access methods) would be a fun topic as well, concerning the efficiency for recoding, but that's just a side question for speculation. You could also speculate that they have asked a couple of past contributors for their constent to a license change of their Bukkit contributions and "only" recode the remaining "bits". Whatever they are doing, i stay with that they know what they are doing.
     
    pookeythekid likes this.
  25. Offline

    Tirelessly

    So I shouldn't ask a question I want to know the answer to?
     
  26. Offline

    Paxination

    Wow I have to spell it out? Its simple.

    You dear sir, opened a can of worms!

    http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/open+a+can+of+worms

    You said something that made a very unpleasant situation. And you could have easily thought that question out or even stated it different to not sound like such a douche about. The fact that in your opening post you sound like your immediately attacking others for still making plugins was what got this flame war against you going.

    And fyi, spigot is updating to 1.8. And from what I understand, is also rewriting the api so they can do full releases again.

    So bukkit isnt dead. Its just being rewritten. Your point is MOOT! Good day to you sir!
     
  27. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Asking questions is (almost) always fine! Doing so while implying that, regardless of the answer, our hobby is a waste of time is less so.
     
  28. Offline

    rsod

    There are a lot of alive and popular 1.5.2, 1.6.4 and 1.7.2/9 servers. They will be there for a long time and nothing can happend so all will close at one point.
     
  29. Offline

    DrPyroCupcake

    Why not? There are still people using CraftBukkit.
     
  30. Offline

    ColonelHedgehog

    Another thread turned to relentless arguing. :/
     
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