Thanks for the feedback!

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by EvilSeph, Nov 12, 2011.

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    The past few weeks we've been going over each and every piece of feedback you, our community, have provided us on various aspects of the Bukkit project and how we do things. In response to your concerns, we are making a number of changes to address the weaknesses some of you have highlighted for us:

    Improving community coverage and approval times
    We're looking to bolster our numbers both on the forums and on BukkitDev in order to be able to provide you guys with the quality of service you've come to expect from Bukkit. Our goal is to clean up the community and make the approval delay on BukkitDev a thing of the past and we're prepared to do whatever it takes to make this happen.

    Plugin Developers badge system
    Due to the move to BukkitDev, managing the Plugin Developers badge system has become cumbersome, difficult and largely impractical. As a result, the Plugin Developers badge system is being frozen until we can decide what would be the best direction to take it.

    Better BukkitDev icons
    The category icons we currently use on BukkitDev are very vague and generic. We need icons that are distinct, tell you what the category is at a glance, are properly themed and are relatively high quality. It's taking us much longer than intended to get some of the people we know to get some icons done so we're hoping our community can help us out.

    New Development System
    I'm just going to come out and say it. Pull request handling, development and innovation is slower than we'd all like. We get it and we're probably more unhappy with it than anyone else, so let's change that.

    Over the past few weeks we've been discussing the possibility of a new development model we'd like to introduce with a preliminary name of 'bleeding'.

    I'm still working out the details of the system, however here's what we have so far:
    • We'll have two separate bleeding edge repos for Bukkit and CraftBukkit, these will be the sandboxes the active contributors from the community can play around in.
    • The usual requirements (possibly more, to be determined) will apply in order to eventually get your polished work into the main repos. This means some things will be denied, but we'll always provide a detailed reason why this is.
    • The main branches are to be synched with stable HEAD; all work is to be done in branches.
    • A private IRC channel for bleeding committers will be created.
    • A private forum for bleeding committers with one thread per branch will be created.
    • The idea is that pull requests will be largely handled through bleeding where there will be many eyes looking at each one.
    • We will be actively and closely working with people on their ideas in order to help nudge them in the right direction for inclusion into the main repos.
    One of the biggest reasons for pull request handling delays is the amount of work it takes to deal with each one. As it is right now, we need to review each PR to see if it is what we want, check the styling, figure out if it is the best way, pull it into a test build and throw it on a test server to verify it works and doesn't break anything else, and so on. This is all a lot of work we need to go through for each PR and results in a significant delay in dealing with them.

    We feel that this new system will help expedite the development process and better involve the community in the project. Through the collaboration we hope will happen as a result of this system, we'll be able to better build a public facing roadmap to improve communication with the rest of the community. Moving forward, we’re looking into sharing a public design document on Bleeding soon where the community can provide input on the new development system before it goes live.

    At the end of the day, we can't even begin to fix an issue we are not aware of. It is thanks to the people who are able to provide honest, mature and constructive feedback that really make a difference in the community. Thank you for your continued support and feedback, it is all greatly appreciated!
    andrewkm, dark_hunter, main() and 4 others like this.
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    I like to see how the future of development is going :)
    And as for plugin developers, how about having the staff select if it deserves, and use a point system. In order to get the badge, you need 'x' points and staff choose how good it is + how many downloads can effect this too.

    Anyway, great work guys!
    Bukkit Team doing better than ever :)

    thanks so much!
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    Gah, I wish there was more I could do than only donating.

    When you post things like: 'OK, this is how we gonna do it: ...' I think: Yay, Bukkit on a roll.
    But when I read things like: 'we are working on this, could use modifications for that' I feel kinda helpless because there is nothing I can do to contribute, except dropping few dollars. Ideas and actually spending time helping out is usually much more valuable then the few dollars my budget can provide.

    Though ofcourse there is nothing wrong with being just a lurker user.
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    This is a big step in the right direction. I just hope that this means more commits and less forks of the code because of lack of getting anything done. Also, maybe plugins will have to use reflection less. -.-;
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    Looks nice. Good ideas. Will love to see it in action when it comes out.
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    You guys are epic :) [cake]
    emericask8ur likes this.
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    I can't believe seph's news today.
    Oh, I can't close the boards
    and program it away.
    How long,
    How long do these pulls go on.
    How long, how long...
    'cause tonight
    We can code as one

    Broken plugins under coders feet
    Errors spewing in their logs on repeat
    But I won't heed their "HALP ME" calls
    It makes eclipse shout
    Makes eclipse shout "THIS IS BALLS"

    Bukkit, bleeding Bukkit
    Bukkit, bleeding Bukkit
    Bukkit, bleeding Bukkit
    agafaba, shadrxninga and Kohle like this.
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    I'm looking forward to what will replace the Plugin Developer tag; I rather enjoy Bukkit+, so I hope to see it is not going away.
    saul100 likes this.
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    I like the "authors" system of bukkitdev!

    Personally why I like:
    Show Spoiler
    I like that system because of the fact that I don't have a plugin dev badge.. Even though i'm active on the plugin requests page, and have a submission accepted. I don't know what bukkit+ gives you or if I might even have it already, but i'm honestly kinda jealous (I can deal though, don't worry). I just believe that the authors system can cleanly reward plugin developers in a do i put this, non-purple-coat-flaunting way.

    My personal opinion is as simple as the complaint "Why don't i get one :(".​

    Anyways, that's just my opinion.​

    Non-personal reasons:
    I also like the author system simply because it is a cleaner way to reward plugin developers and doesn't divide the community as much (i think?).​
    emericask8ur likes this.
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    A win-win situation is to entirely remove the badge.
    - No longer takes up any moderator time
    - No longer encourages the creation of more godmode, tntblock, gamemode, etc plugins to get a badge
    - The badge lost its "status" a long time ago when plenty of wearers of the badge failed to show additional knowledge or maturity
    rakiru and emericask8ur like this.
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    i'm no dev and maybe this isn't the right place to say this, but ya know how when you type an incorrect command the console says "type 'help' for a list of commands"? it shows up exactly the same way ingame, and i see a lot of players who literally type " 'help' " ingame thinking something will happen. If the ingame message could be changed to display as "/help" it would be to the benefit of new players on virtually every server.
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    Go check out the Bukkit Help Thread :)
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    First of all I'll just say the following are my opinions on the Badge/System and NOT necessarily what will happen etc...

    I agree with your last point - I dislike the system, it was great at the start as those with it could be trusted as a source of knowledge and someone to possibly look up to in the community, but these days that's not the case. In fact some have become a nuisance to the community and are going around brandishing this 'title' as if they mean something and are above everyone else.

    Removing the System/Badges entirely may sound like a good idea at first however it puts everyone on the same level, it then means that you cant easily look for a plugin developers responses to a question, you can't really point out who is more likely to have knowledge about the plugin dev system and who doesn't.

    The following are some routes that could be taken IMO - (Remember this is all my opinion on the matter)
    • Remove the system entirely and everyone's on the same level.
      • It may become an issue when trying to find someone whos opinion should be trusted and when trying to find out knowledge regarding plugin development and minecraft related information.
    • Remove the current system and introduce a new badge for trusted/veteran developers.
      • An example would be for Developers well known and knowledgeable such as those around since the hMod days.
      • This means those that really have helped shape the community and Minecraft modding could still be recognised.
    • Remove the current system and instead go with a tiered/ranked system.
      • Depending on how long you've been amongst the community, the state of your plugin, how advanced it is and your knowledge and actions within the community you would get a different plugin dev tag.
      • The idea of this being is if you're new and all you've created is a 'TnT Blocker' plugin then you'd clearly only receive the lowest available tag.
    These are just my thoughts and my ideas on how to resolve the current system.
    rakiru and emericask8ur like this.
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    Personally, I would love to see the Plugin Developer tag continue to exist as it does now, excepting that it is given/taken away automatically based on one's Plugin Author status on

    Once linking Curse accounts and Bukkit accounts becomes feasible for the masses, such a system could be implemented; however, its implementation might take a good amount of time and effort, as from what I understand getting data out of Curse isn't a walk in the park.
    Don Redhorse likes this.
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    @Rigby90 I agree with you on all points, I personally just doubt if it's maintainable.
    It'll certainly add additional workload on the mods and admins. From what I've gathered they've been pretty busy.
    I'd also consider possible drama regarding what does and doesn't justify a certain rank.

    I could quite see the merit in a 'trusted' rank which would be given out to roughly 20-ish people to start with and never extends much beyond 100-ish active members in total.
    (not mentioning those numbers as restrictions, but rather as an example regarding how frequently it would be passed out).

    I guess it mostly comes down to how much work you guys are willing to invest in this.

    Speaking of ranks, it might also work to not rank these badges on top of each other.
    Badges could be 'expert' (to denote significant experience in coding plugins) but also 'helpful' to denote a user who's been exceptionally helpful in aiding other users while not developing plugins themselves.

    One thing I do strongly feel about is making the current 'plugin developer' rank less flashy/noticable.
    I've seen quite helpful and insightful users get ignored as they simply don't stand out between the big purple dev badge.
    My reasoning here being, the current low requirements of obtaining the dev badge doesn't justify the flashiness of the badge.

    ps. To anyone reading this: If I implied I consider myself a candidate for any of the suggested ranks you've misread my intentions. Any new system implemented wouldn't be functioning properly if I'm a candidate for any badge other than a troll badge :)
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    What about this route?
    • Change "Plugin Developer" to "Plugin Author"
    This would be a more accurate depiction
      • Show their most popular plugin in their icon (by means of most viewed, most downloaded, ect.)
    This would still let users identify more experienced authors, while removing the mods' job of custom selecting the 'good' plugin developers
      • Keep bukkit+ advantages but probably tone them down (Not sure, because I don't have this)
    This may not be necessary. I've head bukkit+ allows Plugin Devs to communicate with each other. But isn't there a simpler way to do this? (rather than have a more-or-less secret upgraded account)
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    My personal opinion, is in agreement with this idea, however, how those levels get defined will be difficult.

    Everyone keeps trying to block me... :(
    PatrickFreed likes this.
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    I don't. I just make you explode. ;)
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    How long do you think this will be? Weeks? Or maybe just days?
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    I don't know whether to like this post, or infract it.
    efstajas, Deleted user and Lolmewn like this.
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    efstajas and TnT like this.
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    It wouldn't surprise me if it took close to a month or two really as there's other things to be dealt with first.

    It's definitely not a priority atm, currently our priorities are improving the community and management of said community. We're also looking towards Minecon and the release of Minecraft as this will no doubt cause a few headaches.
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    (...yeah i don't have anything useful to say)
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    Don Redhorse

    well and I would like to enjoy Bukkit+ ... so let's wait and see..
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    My server running bukkit needs to be updated to 10.1
    Anyone know how?
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    This is the third thread you've posted this on, please stop.
    Deleted user likes this.
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