Stupid Chargebacks. How do you win the cases?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by zecheesy, Jul 31, 2012.

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  1. Offline

    zecheesy

    I recently lost a case..
    Status: Disputing on Your Behalf
    Status Details:We have reviewed the case. Because you have not met Seller Protection performance requirements , the transaction will be reversed. The case is now closed.

    I read the Seller protection thing and it states:
    Obviously I'm selling intangible purchases.... So how would I win?
     
  2. Offline

    chaseoes Retired Staff

  3. Offline

    zecheesy

  4. Offline

    TheBeast808

    I lost about $360 this weekend to chargebacks. I gave paypal 10mb+ of data per player. I threw every bit of evidence and logs I had at them, and they said I didn't have enough proof. You can't do shit unless you're giving the buyer a tangible good. Intangible products such as ranks and money will never be covered by paypal, and any donator can get their money back by charging back. Feels bad, but it's the truth.
     
  5. Offline

    zecheesy

    :( I feel bad. I only have lost about $50. Theres another charge back..
    Should I just give them their donation back and IP ban them? :confused:
     
  6. Offline

    dark_hunter

    If they do a chargeback, then do a rankback and ban. :)
     
    Nathan C likes this.
  7. Offline

    chaseoes Retired Staff

    That does not solve anything.
     
  8. Offline

    dark_hunter

    What is lost? Money? For? A rank?
     
  9. Offline

    chaseoes Retired Staff

    Yes, money.
     
  10. Offline

    dark_hunter

    I have had this done many times before, witch sometimes makes me not wanna sell intangible purchases.
     
  11. Offline

    zecheesy

    That sounds like a good idea!
    Thanks :D

    Wait. Even sending paypal your Terms Of Service won't win the chargeback?
     
  12. Offline

    ThornRage

    Had this problem with one that got banned. I fronted the cost myself and haven't told any of my "staff."

    I have updated our wiki with a terms of use and added disclaimer about intangible services etc. Hopefully this will not happen again.
     
  13. Offline

    Sir Savary

    Had this recently happen to me on my server.
    One of our donators charged back $500. I had plenty of proof that they authorized the purchase (charge-back reason was unauthorized purchase). Stupid thing is, even though it's an intangible purchase, this guy's email that he registered with on out site is the same as his paypal email, so I'm pretty sure it was authorized.

    The only thing you can do is ban people like this and make an example of them. I'm looking into talking with McBans to have people like this perma banned across the network.

    Woops, double post.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2016
  14. Offline

    zecheesy

    ok
    ok
     
  15. that would be great if McBans did that you charge back a server you permabanned from alot of servers
     
    Jozeth likes this.
  16. Offline

    TheBeast808

    Nope, I have a pretty good ToS for donations.
    By donating to BeastsMC, you agree that the PayPal account you are transferring money from belongs to you, or that the owner gave you consent to transfer money from it. You also agree that you understand this is a DONATION to BeastsMC for the purpose of paying server costs. You agree that you expect no tangible product from BeastsMC and that this is not a purchase in any way. Finally, you agree that you shall not try to charge back in an attempt to become Donator for free, or to sabotage our funds. Doing so will result in one or more of the following:
    *Demotion to a non-donator rank in-game
    *Permanent ban from the server
    *Personal information being given to Paypal for investigative purposes
    Should you have a legitimate reason to charge back, talk to KablooieKablam or TheBeast808 in-game, or e-mail us at: beastsmc@gmail.com


    Did nothing, paypal didn't care at all.
     
    nunber1_Master likes this.
  17. Offline

    Joshyy

    Then there breaking US law.
     
    nunber1_Master likes this.
  18. Offline

    phrstbrn

    If you want to prevent chargebacks, this is what you need to do:

    1) Require a photo ID
    2) Make them sign a contract
    3) Don't collect donations from persons outside your country
    4) Don't collect donations from a minor
    5) Don't be a minor

    If you want to collect damages, you have to bring them to court. PayPal won't help you.

    Since nobody will want to do any of these things, you're just going to have to deal with it.
     
    nunber1_Master likes this.
  19. Offline

    nala3

    assuming you don't have donation packages for under $5
    1. Include with the donation, a nice piece of paper that says "Hi" or something.
    2. Make sure to inform the donor that they will receive the paper within 2 years ( as you obviously have to to print that out, and your printer being so slow, it can take quite a while! )
    Now since you have included a tangible object with the payment, as long as you send that paper (folded into an envelope) in the mail within those 2 years, the charge back will be rejected, as only tangible goods are covered by PyaPal. Besides, if someone give you 10$, I think you can afford to spend ~$1.50 to send them a nice paper that says hi :) Make sure to also note, that this only applies if they live within the same country as you, so postage isn't crazy.. if you don't send it in 2 years, well your at risk for a charge back lol.
     
    dgibbs3196 and number1_Master like this.
  20. Offline

    zecheesy

    how do you get proof that you shipped it?
     
  21. Offline

    deltahat

    How about this: For any donation over some small amount (say $20) print out a "Certificate of Residency" and mail it to the donor immediately. If you want to get real fancy, create a welcome packet for your server. Use a logistics company that includes tracking so that you can send tracking information to PayPal.

    On your donations page, make it clear that people are purchasing a tangible certificate of residency which confers certain intangible benefits to its bearer. This will hopefully be enough to keep PayPal off your back.
     
  22. Offline

    zecheesy

    Okay, but how do you prove that you shipped out the certificate?
     
  23. Offline

    chaseoes Retired Staff

    I actually thought of mailing players a physical item but wasn't sure what was suitable.

    The only problem is that we're talking chargebacks here - and in most cases they are filed as unauthorized transactions. The way I see it, the credit card company does not care if they got the item or not - we would have to provide some form of proof that the payment wasn't unauthorized.

    Every shipment (no matter through what company/country) should have a tracking number. When the item is delivered whoever delivered it marks it as so. You can provide this as proof to PayPal (it's one of the options when disputing a chargeback, provide proof the item was delivered).
     
  24. Offline

    nala3

    Basically a fancier form of what I said :)
     
  25. Offline

    zecheesy

    Sorry, but where can you find the tracking number?
     
  26. Offline

    nala3

    companies like UPS and FexEx for example provide you tracking numbers for packages. the US Postal Service might but idk
     
  27. Offline

    deltahat

    According to the PayPal Seller Protection FAQ, the key to beating chargebacks is to
    1. Not be under 18
    2. Ship a tangible good - such as a server welcome packet or stickers
    3. Ship with a reputable logistics company that provides tracking numbers
    4. Ship within 7 days of receipt
    5. Only ship to Confirmed Addresses verified by PayPal
    6. Retain proof of delivery from your logistics company
    7. Provide all requested records to PayPal promptly
    If all the above are met, my understanding from the FAQ is that you will be allowed to keep your money even in the event of an unauthorized charge.
    Doing the above will require more work than just throwing up a donation button, but if it saves you from eating a $500 chargeback, I think the work is worth it.
     
  28. Offline

    lmc

    You have to realise that chargebacks are not only with Paypal, you can open a chargeback with your bank after purchasing something in a store. Its something you have to accept in any trades be it online or not. I use merchant accounts that will actually charge you if a chargeback is opened, around 20 USD or so. So if you sell something for 5 USD, and a chargeback occurs, you've actually lost a lot more than you started with.
     
  29. Offline

    pixelbat

    I'd say simply create something tangible they get for their donation (in addition to their rank)... Like maybe a newsletter? Or maybe a welcome booklet that gives them info about the server, commands, features, how-to's, etc.
     
  30. Offline

    zecheesy

    Does FexEx or UPS email you the tracking number? Or how would you get it?

    I should just send them an 'air guitar'

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2016
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