More information on the Minecraft 1.7.2 update

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Nov 15, 2013.

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    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    Things are progressing nicely towards our first development build of CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.7.2. Although this update did not provide or add as much feature-wise as previous Minecraft updates have, this is probably one of the more complicated and larger updates we've had to work with from a mod development standpoint. With "almost all of [the code in Minecraft] having been changed - be it little or big" (according to Mojang), there has been significant shifting around of code and logic - to the estimated tune of ~220k lines changed - within Minecraft, resulting in our slowest and most involved update yet.

    Managing expectations - information about our initial CraftBukkit 1.7.2 builds
    Five days ago (on November 10th) I sent out a tweet trying to describe what our initial findings were regarding the impact this Minecraft update has on the project but it's frustratingly very difficult to communicate everything I want or need to in 140 characters. Nonetheless, sending out tweets is still our best form of communication that doesn't push other important topics out of view (like the potential structure loss PSA).

    The tweet was meant to explain that while we will definitely have development builds, our analysis and evaluation of the update (through reading the code and following Minecraft feedback/bug reports from the community) has revealed that there are issues in Minecraft that may prevent us from getting anything stable or reliable out. This was purely meant to assist us with managing expectations as to the quality, stability and reliability of any builds we're able to give out.

    As for the 'issues we cannot fix' aspect of the tweet, this is due to the nature and policies of the Bukkit project: it is not so much that we are unable to fix the issues ourselves (though this can sometimes be the case), but rather that the issues present are not the project's responsibility to fix and, instead, would be better addressed by Mojang. While we do sometimes make exceptions if we have a really good reason to do so (like to fix a security issue), we try and avoid altering the way Minecraft itself behaves and functions. This is both a conscious decision as a project and a necessity, as too many changes to Minecraft's inner workings can mean significant increases in the complexity and amount of work required for the update process.

    It's not so much that we choose not to fix these issues, but rather that we need to be fully conscious and aware of the impact doing so could have on the update process and our day-to-day maintaining of the project. If the fix for an issue touches too many internals within Minecraft, for example, it usually makes the update process significantly more complex, resulting in (what could be an avoidable) increase in the amount of time it takes us to update. As much as we'd like to fix every issue we come across, doing so would mean updating to new Minecraft versions will take even longer than they currently do.

    This is why we have the minimal diffs policy (a policy which eliminates unnecessary changes to the Minecraft code), it results in a speedier and less buggy update for everyone. Although it undoubtedly limits the developers in our project, I think you'll agree that it's a worthy sacrifice and limit to impose upon ourselves in order to ensure that the downtime of your server between updates is as minimal as we can possibly achieve.

    If we were not personally responsible for updating the core of our project, we'd have much more freedom to experiment. As it is, however, the Bukkit project handles updating, development and the maintaining of both a plugin API (Bukkit) and a Minecraft server mod (CraftBukkit) in order to produce the server you all know and love.

    To be clear:
    • There WILL be development builds; we're still working towards getting our first one out.
    • Due to significant changes in how Minecraft works, it will take us a while to get our Bukkit API updated. Hence, it is highly unlikely that all the plugins you are using will work on our initial development builds.
    • There will MOST LIKELY be promoted builds, but they'll be lower quality than you could usually expect from us due to issues we can't address.
    What does updating CraftBukkit involve?
    To give you an idea as to why this update is taking longer than usual, I need to briefly touch on what our update process involves. Every time a Minecraft update is released, we have to go through a repetitive, time consuming and dry multi-step process.

    A simple breakdown of the process is as follows: decompile the server -> learn the new names (they change with every update) -> figure out how they apply to Bukkit's naming system -> learn what changed/what's new in the update -> update the changes we make to the server to support Bukkit -> get the code to compile -> fix issues that come up.

    Since we're working with a code base that is unfamiliar to us, we can sometimes find ourselves having to jump back to a previous step. For example: we may come across a piece of code that we're not familiar with and once we're able to figure out what it does, we realise that we've named something incorrectly which we then have to go back and fix. It is this fluid and unpredictable aspect of the update process that makes it difficult to come up with a communicable ETA or any progress/status updates.

    Though this process may seem inefficient or ineffective, this is the same process that we've used and improved upon to get all of our updates out (even our fastest ones) over the 3 years the project has existed. Bear in mind, the overview provided here barely touches the surface of our update process and is intended to give you a remote idea as to what we have to deal with for every update. This brief and simplified breakdown of our 'steps' does little to explain the varying level of difficulty or complexity of each step, for example.

    How can I help?
    The best way to help us out is to get involved.

    If you're a server admin: once we have our first development build out, we'd appreciate any testing you could perform and any issues you can report. Please bear in mind that development builds are unsupported and should not be run on production servers.

    If you're a plugin developer: once we have our first development build out with proper API support, we'd appreciate if you could test the build out and report any missing or broken API to our bug tracker.

    If you're looking to help us out with the update, you'll have to work towards that goal by getting involved in other aspects of the project first. Due to the sensitive and extremely team oriented nature of the update process, we require that you build a relationship and demonstrate your commitment to the project before getting involved with updating will benefit the process. As the update process is incredibly repetitive and mundane, intense commitment is a key requirement for the team.

    We know this update is taking longer than usual but I assure you we are working our hardest to get it done. Thanks for your patience and continued support, it makes a huge difference and really helps us push onward!
     
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    legoset


    Agree with you completely Tim, unlike so many other abusive and pointless messages here that are not worth the effort of even acknowledging.[/quote]

    I agree too however I just want too know about how long we may wait, I don't care but would like to know, eg a week, a month etc
     
    racecar56 and Deathmaul51 like this.
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    FireBreath14

    Awesome. You guys put in so much time into Bukkit, we all appreciate it! Thanks for your hard work toward the most popular Minecraft server platform :)
     
    racecar56 and danielh112 like this.
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    Skyost

    I am a developer too and I know what you are feeling.
    Very good work EvilSeph (and the whole Bukkit team) ;)
     
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    LeeTheENTP

    Will the 1.7.2 update break plugins that only use the 1.6.4 Bukkit API? In other words, will the API be changed so much by the revamp in the code that plugins will need to be adjusted and recompiled with the new API in order to function?
     
    Deathmaul51 likes this.
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    turt2live Retired Staff

    The API is designed so that breakages, if any, are kept to a minimum.

    Ideally the team will not have to touch too much in the Bukkit API (that would break stuff) while the backend ("CraftBukkit") gets the overhaul to 1.7. Remember, your CraftBukkit.jar is in technically 2 parts (to us developers): The actual server and the API.

    In it's simplest terms: The API is a bunch of wall sockets on a wall. Developers plug their code into these sockets and everything works out nicely. Behind the drywall there are a bunch of cables, boxes, and other things that make the building function. The idea is to re-route wiring and pipes to make the building work again without removing/moving too many sockets.

    TL;DR
    Ideally all 1.6.4 plugins should work, with a few possible exceptions. The team is (likely) trying to keep breakages to a minimum (ie: zero).
     
    MinecraftrGuy and JaguarJo like this.
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    Bobcat00

    I have an exclusive photo of the Bukkit team working on the cables boxes, and other things:

    donut-worry-we-iz-profesion.jpg

    :p Can't resist posting a photo of cats
     
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    epicgamerdude54

    Thx for the info cant wait for 1.7.2
     
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    Smooshman12345

    One other problem is the world generation how will multivers work? will it generate new terrain? Soo many questions.
     
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    MrARCO

    I would like to make a comment on the recent and latest updates that the bukkit team are providing us. Minecraft without bukkit is like an egg without salt. Sure, some people are complaining about the fact that it's taking too long. I'd rather see a nice and stable Application Programming Interface without any big plugin breaks. Most 1.6.4 plugins will stay the way how they work though, some may act different. But most inportant plugins such as World Edit or NoCheat will be updated in no time. So guys, please be patient, and let the Dev's do their work. I am also a Java programmer, and i know how much time it takes to rewrite at least 200.000 lines of code.

    Keep up the good work guys! You are the people who makes Minecraft a great game to enjoy for the whole world.
     
    danw3st, ddarkpolice and racecar56 like this.
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    ddarkpolice

    Well, guess we would find out :p
     
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    Blueeex2

    Hello,

    I really appreciate that you guys work so hard on the bukkit update, and I also know that this is really
    time consuming!

    But when will the Bukkit Plugin released, I'm really excited. It's probably hard to say when it will be released but can't you give us more information and say that will take max. 2 Weeks or 3 ?

    I'm kinda impatient :(

    Sorry for my english
     
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    poison5200

    I can't wait until this is done! Not rushing you, of course, but thanks for the update!
     
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    chibill

    Plus if MCP comes out it would make it easier on the Bukkit team to find the names.
     
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    gameblaster64


    I'd have no problem paying $10/month to help fund Bukkit.

    EDIT: Done.

    Can someone explain to me what happened to the news about Mojang buying Bukkit back in February 2012? I assumed they all moved to Sweden and have been working with Jeb and team.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2016
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    DannySan626

    Guys, just expect the 1.7.2 release to come out around Christmas. I have a feeling they might do that as a"present" for our patience.
     
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    spluton

    probably would be better not throwing off random dates, cause people will take them for granted and get sad/mad after that if it's not out by then,
    just keep checking the download page and the forum header to see if there new development
     
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    DannySan626


    Yeah i already know this, I have been checking for a long long while now, but seems like what I said is where it most likely will be heading. Plus if people get mad or sad, they will already be mad if it lasts past Christmas anyways, and they can be sad all they want if I am wrong considering I am not an official Bukkit admin, I never said that that day is going to be the day that they will finally bring it out, it is my own opinion on how they will go about this. If I am wrong, I am wrong. If not, then hallelujah I have guessed something right after so long in my life.
     
  19. Offline

    kenzierocks



    You may think that there is no evidence for this mod API, but as a very active modder I've seen so many helpful changes go through that help modders a great deal, including removing some limitations that used to be around the code and adding new official ways to add things, instead of using Forge and the like.
     
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    turt2live Retired Staff

    Bukkit does not use MCP in any way, shape, or form.
     
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    MetalGearDaner

    Pff! Can't wait for Bukkit 1.7 :rolleyes: I hope it will be release soon :p
     
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    Bobcat00

    It looks like Minecraft 1.7.3 will be out before Bukkit 1.7.2 is released.
     
    Kuito likes this.
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    gerardvanschip

    At the start of this year the bukkit team posted about them joining Mojang to work on the official API. It was said this would not mean it would be backward compatible to bukkit, it would be a new thing.

    As I understand it 1.8 will be the first release of Minecraft with the new API, 1.7 is a step towards that. As such I think the question should not be "when will bukkit 1.7.2 be released" but rather when will the API 1.8 release come out and then "when will modders have 1.8 plugins ready.

    I'm hating this right now as running a server without plugins is a major handicap but having an official Mojang jar with supported API build in is going to make the whole plugin experience so much more solid.

    If I got any of the above wrong I would welcome a response from the bukkit guys but to me this is what it looks like. They are working on 1.8 proper API support. Bukkit is now a side project. Maybe someone should pick it up and we can have a healthy competition in features between new bukkit and Mojang API ;)
     
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    turt2live Retired Staff

    1.8 is not promised to have the Mojang API. Jeb has stated multiple times it is "likely ready for January 2014" but last year it was supposed to be "end of 2013". Either way, there is no certain release that will for sure (at this time) contain the Mojnag API.
    Also no current Mojang employee is working on anything Bukkit related. The update team are other Bukkit members who are working quite hard to get it completed.
     
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    Bobcat00

    That's not the current status. Earlier this month, Jeb said they have "high hopes" to release it in 2014, but "no promises." The video of him saying that is available online.
     
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    SRhodesy

    Let me first say. Bukkit is fantastic, You guys really do make it work and happen!, Minecraft Multiplayer would be nothing without bukkit! You guys have to be proud of where you've been to get here!

    However...With all my respect to you guys, there is some fundamental issues here. As a very big server owner, we rely on bukkit quite alot!, Not only that, when players pay for ranks etc like most servers do, there becomes an actual money issue aswell. Basically, I know that me and many many others are waiting heavily on this update! And we all understand you have alot of work to do, but you'd think something that is this big and such an important figure in the minecraft world, we would at least be given a release date. At the moment we've just been told what your doing and whats happening, No actual dates or evidence here. Ill say it again, we are grateful for your work, and are pleased, however its now starting to become slightly ridiculous in terms of releasing.

    Don't think im mugging you guys off. I'm just stating the frustration us server owners are facing at the moment!
     
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    MrAlexander137

    Thanks for the update, do you have any idea how many more weeks until Bukkit 1.7.2?
    Keep up the good work and then go have a good drink. :p
     
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    jeffro1001

    I agree with you. Without Bukkit, minecraft would not be as successful.

    The thing is Mojang has no reason to be more involved.
    If their pricing model was subscription based then yes they would have a great incentive to be more involved.

    Since the game is " buy once and play forever" it doesn't really matter to them how long a new customer actually continues playing the game.

    Thanks for the update. I had a feeling this one would take a lot longer than all the others.
     
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    mcwurth


    only a month :) im okay with that my server is still running on 1.6.4 tried the new snapshot today and the twitch thing doesn´t really add any magic for me. liked the glass and colored panes. guess my new building in town will have to have open windows till bukkit is up to speed ;)
     
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    TnT Retired Staff

    Offtopic posts removed.
     
    Widawizz22 and hawkfalcon like this.
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    mbcx2

    Yes they are, but they are going to make something better than Bukkit, the creator of Bukkit (dinnerbone) is now at Mojang doing the Minecraft API :)
     
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