Mojang and the Bukkit Project

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by vubui, Sep 5, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    JorgTheElder


    You are absolutely correct that I have not read or even looked for the new EULA. I take what they have posted on the the official Mojang site as legally binding. EULAs are not laws, they are contracts and as such can only be tested/enforced by threat of a lawsuit or an actual lawsuit. Because of this, they do not stand on their own. Any case like this went to court, the could would _likely_ take into consideration all official Mojang communication on the matter.

    So yes, you are correct, I have not even looked for a new EULA, but I have heard loud and clear Mojang's intentions on the matter and would be perfectly comfortable running a server and relying on their statements having legal weight.

    As a side note, I am disappointed that after all the EULA drama and the setting a date for when the new rules were to be in effect that their was not a new EULA included in every install of the Minecraft client and featured prominently on the minecraft_server.jar download page.
     
  2. Offline

    Nepenthesis

    Is Dinnerbone still working for Mojang? If so, then Bukkit 1.8... If not, then we're screwed? Or what? Is there a team working on this? Since Mojang owns Bukkit, won't they have SOMEONE continue it?

    And if no one continues it, what the heck do minigame servers do??!!?!? So many people would quit Minecraft...
     
  3. Offline

    sciguyryan

    Mojang are not going to update it. https://gist.github.com/evilmidget38/26a8097cba2d69d4884d

    Not that it would matter in current instances since they cannot update it even if they want to. It is locked down via the DMCA and Mojang owning Bukkit changes nothing there.

    It's dead in the water. Fortunately Sponge is stepping up to take it's place.
     
  4. Offline

    Kezza

    This is what I think of it all.
    [​IMG]
     
    Adzkii, Rylan and Dpasi314 like this.
  5. Offline

    CubieX

    Is there a proof for this? Are some of them really working (as a team) to get a new server mod up?
     
  6. Offline

    Kezza

    Apparently Sponge is well underway; is that what you mean?
    Oh, here's another little gem for you all:
    [​IMG]

    I agree with this completely. And I would never have paid the thousands of dollars I've paid for my servers. Yes it's true, servers cost us a great deal of money, for hosting and for advertising. They are for the love and interest of it. But without Bukkit, it's impossible to continue.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
    Firedroide, Bammerbom and CubieX like this.
  7. Offline

    sciguyryan

  8. Offline

    WyrdWyrd

    Ok, I suppose I might be mistaken but it looks like the github Bukkit repository is back up:
    https://github.com/Bukkit/Bukkit

    Am I reading that correctly? or am I just looking at the wrong thing?

    If it is back up, does that mean that if new people wanted to step in to manage the Bukkit project and update the CraftBukkit code for 1.8 they would be able to do so?
    --
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    You're right that at the time of my writing there is no proof.

    First to your point about Microsoft: I don't know if them buying Mojang would be good or bad for Microsoft. But even if it would be bad for them: you can't make me believe Microsoft is very good at making good decisions. Three Examples: 1) turning word processor program, effectively, into a language interpreter thereby allowing arbitrary files to contain executable code with no security checks until years after the fact. 2) Windows Vista. 3) Windows 8.

    And about the Notch side of things:
    No proof, just rumors. It's just that in the past, Notch was always quick to shoot down rumors. His silence (appears) to speak volumes. The only other anecdotal stuff I can provide suggesting that an acquisition might be about to happen is (and I know this is very flimsy):

    * Notch, on his Twitter feed, it makes it look like all he's been doing is playing around with Doom-related coding. Aaand talking to John Carmack. Remember, that's the same John Carmack who now works at Oculus VR that recently got bought by Facebook (a.k.a. the Lesser of Two Microsofts). Notch went off on a rant about that deal when it happened. And then later, he tweeted what could be construed as a retraction.

    * I mean, put yourself in Notch's place: making Minecraft was great. But all these problems with the community, and every attempt to steer things back to a positive direction just seems to anger the community further.

    And M$ is always there waiting for the day when you've finally had enough with their big ol' pile-o-cash.

    -------------------

    But you could be right. It might be that Notch's resolve is firm, and that all these rumors are meaningless nothings.

    All I know is, this would be a precarious time to be a for-profit MC server admin.

    --
    Furry cows moo and decompress.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  9. Offline

    kshade

    You are looking at the wrong thing, CraftBukkit is what's down.

    PS: Signature options are here.
     
    WyrdWyrd likes this.
  10. Offline

    DiamondHunter

    I was under the impression that minecraft forced bukkit to close down. This past week has been very confusing for me. Thank you for clearing all of this up for me.
     
  11. Offline

    Kezza

    Thank you for that! I've signed up and will help them all I can. But I'm afraid, still; this makes no real sense that Microsoft cannot still recall its copyright on the components being used. What Wolverness did can be done again. And I do not for one second imagine that Microsoft has the intuition or interest to allow modding to continue, not of its property, and not in a way that enables privately owned servers versus Realms.
    I'm very nervous about it and would like someone to explain to me how this could ever be safe. We invest so much time and love into these things. From my end, it's artwork contributed. For the modders, well, I can only imagine...

    One more thing I'll add here, then I'm off to Sponge to support from now on:
    I look for logic in events, and motive. I do not believe in coincidences or mysteries. There are always logical answers and the simplest are nearly always the right ones.
    Mr Wolverness was an employee of Mojang, I am to understand? According to forums here, that appears to be the case.
    Ok, so in the world of business (and we must think with business hats on, not a hat of a dedicated Minecraft lover), copyright is vital, and a clear ownership likewise. Now consider; Notch approached Microsoft three months ago. But he'd have been planning to sell sometime before that; he didn't just wake up one day and have the idea in his brain. And, consider the kind of lengthy discussions corporations have to conduct such a deal. Every aspect would have been discussed, including (and certainly not least) the open modification community and what to do with it. And what would Microsoft want to do with that? The answer is logical in light of financial news reports now filling the outside world. Think like Microsoft before you answer that for yourselves. And the subject would have been discussed in negotiations with Mojang.
    So, what would Mojang have to do to tidy all that up for Microsoft? What has been done is the clear answer. But imagine the scenario if Mojang itself sent the DMCA; why, there would have been riots! There would have been a tough copyright battle, people would possibly/probably taken Mojang on. The enormous barrage of anger would have been just too dangerous. So what should Mojang do to prevent privately hosted servers and plugins and mods? Why, send in a scapegoat to shut it down of course; or in this case, a scapewolf.
    I can assure you that as soon as I saw the EULA crackdown begin, I knew the real motive for it. To make people play in a more fair manner? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! That was just a sad joke and a smokescreen. No, I smelt a copyright crackdown; and at the time I looked for motive and saw it was Realms, which was not doing very well. That made enough sense; nothing else did.
    I know copyright battles. I've been in them (and won). I recognised the EULA motive, and I see it now in the DMCA. And I see too how Mojang would need to keep its hands clean in all that.
    And to support my statements, nobody has come up with any sort of reason for Wolverness' actions to apply an alternative, sensible theory. Wolverness and EvilSeph are as silent as the grave on the subject.
    No ladies and gents, this was indeed orchestrated.
    Minecraft is now a Microsoft game. This is a different animal. And I fear for the future of independent development, Sponge or no Sponge.
    I hope I am wrong. But if I'm not, and all modding is crushed (it will be done after time, not immediately), then I sincerely hope the Sponge people or other modding groups gather to create a wonderful new game that I will support with all my heart.
    Goodbye Bukkit, I loved you long.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  12. Offline

    sciguyryan

    It could be shut down but the current EULA allows it so it's not in any way illegal. It shouldn't be possible for it to be taken down by a DMCA this time due to the license that has been used in the new project.
     
  13. Offline

    desht

    https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/
     
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  14. Offline

    fromgate Retired Staff

  15. Offline

    WyrdWyrd

    Ah. Thanks.

    And about the signature-- yeah, I went ahead and put my "furry cows" line in there now. I guess that will help with quoting maybe.

    I just hadn't gotten around to it yet. I have a text macro thingie that lets me insert it at the end of messages regardless of what forum/platform I'm on.

    My usual habit, in the absence of a defined signature on a given forum thing, is to only use it on messages of substance or length. (note--possible for a message of mine to be long, but have not much substance heh)

    (P.S. except for some reason the signature did not append itself to this message. *shrug*)

    Mojang's post has more real info. Including that "The founders: Notch, Carl, and Jakob are leaving."

    -- https://mojang.com/2014/09/yes-were-being-bought-by-microsoft/

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  16. Offline

    Nepenthesis

    sciguyryan sciguyryan

    WAIT WHAT IS SPONGE OMG

    I NEED
     
  17. Offline

    RawCode

    mojang sold minecraft with bukkit and with "bukkit team" to microsoft.

    as soon as bukkit team got information about "hey guy, now you are free labor for microsoft have fun" they left.
     
  18. Offline

    orgin_org

    http://spongepowered.com

    Besides being based of Forge, which is a total mess, it will not be API-compatible with Bukkit. So no existing (Craft)Bukkit plugin will work with it. And porting a moderately sized plugin, like say the terrain generator HothGenerator that I am the author of, to a new API would be a nightmare since you would basically have to test every API call and API class to see if it behaves the same together with your code which is far from a small effort. Nor will the sponge api be complete and mature enough compared to the Bukkit API in a very very long time which further frustrates any porting effort.

    I doubt there are very many plugin authors that would be interested in going through all that so you won't be using all those nifty plugins you are used to in a very long time.
     
    extended_clip likes this.
  19. Offline

    Nepenthesis

    Ok, so I guess the question now is what do we do?

    What are our options to update to 1.8 and still be able to control the server with permissions and use plugins?
     
  20. Offline

    Chojun

    JustSomeChick


    And at the rest of the community:

    Currently a game in the Voxel-based sandbox genre is making waves on Steam and at its current pace is probably going to overtake Minecraft at some point (my prediction is based on current velocities of both projects). I'd encourage everyone to take a look at it. It's called Space Engineers.

    http://www.spaceengineersgame.com/

    The game's developers are EXTREMELY responsive to the community (indeed, in an uncanny way - the game is proceeding almost entirely at the community's direction with a great deal of leadership from the developer). The game receives weekly updates that are actually of consequence and the developers have already begun on the path of supporting a mod community. The game is essentially Minecraft in space - except that it has outstanding graphics and it's only in a very early beta stage.

    I only mention this because I know that many of us are extremely disappointed at the direction that things are going lately. Mojang had over 1 1/2 years (or longer) to develop and release the mod API and they didn't - now at great harm for the community. I look at video game companies the same way as Mutual Funds - when management changes it's time to sell. Some of Mojang's top leadership have already done just that.

    It's okay to admit that Minecraft is up against some stiff competition these days and there are bluer skies beyond the Minecraft horizon.
     
  21. Offline

    neylandboy

    None
     
  22. Offline

    SmilerRyan

    i hope we can all use bukkit again...
    please microsoft, please...:mad:
     
  23. Offline

    V10lator

    I know I left the community some time ago, but this affects more than just Bukkit: This is simply wrong. CraftBukkit is derivative work of the official Minecraft Server software:
    (Source: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html )

    In other words: The file craftbukkit.jar contains the net.minecraft.server package, which is licensed under your EULA but has to be licensed under the GPL. It doesn't matter that it has been obfuscated (or are you saying the obfuscation removes the EULA, so the files you're giving to users aren't licensed under it? What else are they licensed under then?) and/or decompiled.
     
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  24. Offline

    MeanMaggie

    The way I understand it, Mojang realized the importance of both keeping craftbukkit alive and allowing the community the freedom to take it in any direction they wanted. By "buying" Bukkit (or however the transaction was accomplished) they had legal standing to pick up the development in situations like we have today where it looks like 1 developer is holding the project hostage and the rest have quit.

    With the Microsoft purchase, and so much money floating around, I can understand it if the developers of Craftbukkit felt left out. After all, as other readers have said, the server is the thing that is selling the client. If it weren't for the servers, I wouldn't have started playing. The developers, and the rest of the wide community making plug-ins, got **nothing** out of the billions of dollars Microsoft laid out.

    Now, you could say that they shouldn't have gotten anything. They were never promised anything, to begin with. They were volunteers doing it part-time for fun. But if it were me, I'd feel left out too.

    So, what's in it for Wolvereness? Perhaps he knows Craftbukkit is a critical piece of the Mojang business model and is holding out for money. Or perhaps he is just ticked off and doing it for spite. I don't think he has legal standing and I think that will eventually sort itself out. If you contribute to an open source project, you can retain the rite to the code you wrote (and for example use it elsewhere and even charge for it), but that doesn't mean you can withdraw it from the project. Once it is in, and released to the world, it is in. The same as if you worked on a Linux utility (as I did 15 years ago) -- I couldn't decide to cripple Red Hat by taking out my code. Though I could use my own code elsewhere if I wanted.

    But whether or not Minecraft code is included in Craftbukkit, seems immaterial to me. Mojang owns both Craftbukkit and Minecraft. They can't very well sue themselves. If they turned a blind eye for the last two years and allowed Craftbukkit to exist, and flourish, with some piece of their code in it, that's their business. They can enforce, or not enforce, their license as they see fit. In fact, I think allowing Craftbukkit to exist at all was very generous on their part (though as I said above, they probably knew Craftbukkit was critical for their sales)

    If I were to guess how this shakes out, I'd say that Wolvereness loses his case and Craftbukkit is available again. That doesn't mean it will rise from the ashes, as all the developers are gone. It could mean that Microsoft hires new developers to carry on (after all, what is $1M for the server, when you just spent $2B for the client?). Or it could be that they entice the former developers back by offering them some money. Or perhaps (the worst option) Microsoft builds a Craftbukkit-like option into the Realms server as a way to take over the server market and lets the Craftbukkit project die, leaving the DMCA as is.

    The right way to go is the open way. That's how you build excitement and innovation. But that's not necessarily Microsoft's style. They're much more in the "squeeze as much $ out as you can" mode.
     
    AlarielEisfalke likes this.
  25. Offline

    LokiChaos

    MeanMaggie
    The issue is CraftBukkit requires GPL and unlicensed code derived from the MC server to be linked in building it. This has ALWAYS been an issue (This being a problem has been pointed back at least as far back as 2011 based on my searches), just no one has before now objected (either Mojang over the inclusion of a derivative work of their code, or anyone who contributed code under the terms of the GPL that is being violated).

    The terms of Bukkit's code expressly forbid linking it with non-GPL-compatibly licensed code. Wolvereness and other devs contributed the code under a very specific set of terms, and you are still free to use their code under those terms (just those terms happen to mean you can't do anything /useful/ with it). By the same token, if Red Hat was not following the terms you licensed the code under 15 years back, you CAN ask them (or even sue them) to stop distributing your code OR to follow the terms of the license you originally gave it to them under. If it were any of the common F/LOSS licenses you cannot revoke the license, but you can still hold them to the terms of it. In this case, Wolvereness' claim is that the terms are not being adhered to, not that he wishes to revoke the openness of the code.

    Wolvereness and the other contributers still hold the rights to their contributions, so Mojang/Microsoft cannot re-license the project unless all of the contributers agree.
     
  26. Offline

    neylandboy

    There's no point worrying about Wolvereness any more. Bukkit is dead. Spigot is dead, Any software that uses minecraft.server.jar in any way shape or form is dead. Mojang could have shut them all down, but never bothered to uphold its license. They weren't the evil money grabbing conglomerate to do that. Now Microsoft are owners, there is no way on earth, that they will allow anybody to use their software without paying them huge amounts of money. They're not bothered about craft/bukkit, it'll be deep sixed and that will be that. Get used to vanilla people.
     
  27. Offline

    AravanFox

    The Sponge Devs hope to get a bones API done in a month. http://forums.spongepowered.org/t/status-update-16-september-2014/2130

    Many Devs have claimed their plugins, as shown on this spreadsheet from a thread about what server owners feel they MUST have: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sjqo_NroBPAX-m4R78IPGdAPW8794A8gj38GpN6e5lU/edit#gid=0

    So, perhaps we can have almost-vanilla 1.8 servers by.. Christmas! :p
     
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  28. Offline

    orgin_org

    Right, well let me know when all of these are ported (And not with a totally different usage paradigm as they seem to be hell bent on doing, making any porting effort even more annoying):

    ## Bukkit package classes
    org.bukkit.Bukkit
    org.bukkit.ChatColor
    org.bukkit.Chunk
    org.bukkit.DyeColor
    org.bukkit.GameMode
    org.bukkit.GrassSpecies
    org.bukkit.Location
    org.bukkit.Material
    org.bukkit.SandstoneType
    org.bukkit.Server
    org.bukkit.TreeSpecies
    org.bukkit.TreeType
    org.bukkit.World
    org.bukkit.block.Biome
    org.bukkit.block.Block
    org.bukkit.block.BlockFace
    org.bukkit.block.BlockState
    org.bukkit.block.Chest
    org.bukkit.block.CreatureSpawner
    org.bukkit.command.Command
    org.bukkit.command.CommandSender
    org.bukkit.configuration.file.FileConfiguration
    org.bukkit.configuration.file.YamlConfiguration
    org.bukkit.entity.*
    org.bukkit.entity.CaveSpider
    org.bukkit.entity.Entity
    org.bukkit.entity.EntityType
    org.bukkit.entity.FallingBlock
    org.bukkit.entity.LivingEntity
    org.bukkit.entity.Player
    org.bukkit.entity.Slime
    org.bukkit.event.EventHandler
    org.bukkit.event.EventPriority
    org.bukkit.event.Listener
    org.bukkit.event.block.Action
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockBreakEvent
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockFadeEvent
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockFormEvent
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockGrowEvent
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockPlaceEvent
    org.bukkit.event.block.BlockSpreadEvent
    org.bukkit.event.entity.CreatureSpawnEvent
    org.bukkit.event.player.PlayerInteractEvent
    org.bukkit.event.world.StructureGrowEvent
    org.bukkit.generator.BlockPopulator
    org.bukkit.generator.ChunkGenerator
    org.bukkit.inventory.Inventory
    org.bukkit.inventory.ItemStack
    org.bukkit.inventory.PlayerInventory
    org.bukkit.material.LongGrass
    org.bukkit.material.MaterialData
    org.bukkit.material.Mushroom
    org.bukkit.material.Sandstone
    org.bukkit.material.Stairs
    org.bukkit.material.Tree
    org.bukkit.material.Vine
    org.bukkit.material.Wool
    org.bukkit.permissions.Permission
    org.bukkit.permissions.PermissionDefault
    org.bukkit.plugin.Plugin
    org.bukkit.plugin.PluginDescriptionFile
    org.bukkit.plugin.java.JavaPlugin
    org.bukkit.util.noise.PerlinNoiseGenerator
    ## WorldEdit package classes
    com.sk89q.worldedit.Vector
    com.sk89q.worldedit.bukkit.WorldEditPlugin
    com.sk89q.worldedit.bukkit.selections.CuboidSelection
    com.sk89q.worldedit.bukkit.selections.Selection
    com.sk89q.worldedit.regions.CuboidRegion
    com.sk89q.worldedit.regions.CuboidRegionSelector
    com.sk89q.worldedit.regions.RegionSelector
    ## WorldGuard package classes
    com.sk89q.worldguard.bukkit.WorldGuardPlugin
    com.sk89q.worldguard.protection.ApplicableRegionSet
    com.sk89q.worldguard.protection.flags.DefaultFlag
    com.sk89q.worldguard.protection.flags.StateFlag.State
    com.sk89q.worldguard.protection.regions.ProtectedRegion
     
  29. Offline

    saki2fifty

    No idea why people hate on Microsoft so much (that was rhetorical). They will probably create a project team specifically for the official API, which will put focus on this much needed aspect of the game. With that... now you have a way on earth that'll allow just about any programmer to use their software. Kinda like what Mojang had in sight.

    And why would it not be reasonable that with MS now at the wheel, that there wouldn't be hope for Multi-Core support and other cool stuff. They already have the code in .net / xna for that on the 360.

    Without Minecraft, we wouldn't be here.
    Without Bukkit, we wouldn't be here.
    Without Microsoft, we'd still be playing Mario Bros. v.127.023.
     
    StarScore likes this.
  30. Offline

    MeanMaggie


    More interesting would be if Mojang, as the copyright owner and the actual wounded party, were to sue Wolvereness for knowingly infringing on their copyright for 2 years.
     
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