Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Jinli, Oct 25, 2014.
I think EULA stopped bukkit from updating to 1.8. does that mean we have to switch to spigot? :/
No dev team and poor license choice stopped it. EULA is unrelated.
Also Spigot isn't a long-term solution. I suggest looking into they myriad of other projects that have no connection to Bukkit's API.
There is progress on a 1.8 version for Spigot, though. So that might give Bukkit-plugin-based servers enough time to decide on "what with Minecraft" . Other mods also might have compatibility plugins/layers at some point, so there is some justification to keep waiting. Might still take weeks/months for something open-source + 1.8 + decent, no matter what plugin system.
I voted no because I think the DMCA will ultimately be quashed with a counter-notice or withdrawn.
Development of the project ceased before the DMCA. Reasons cited included confusion about EULA and lack of willing & able volunteers to develop.
AdamQpzm I thought Dinnerbone (sorry, wrong name? Someone from Mojang I think it was) overrode EvilSeph's attempt to shut it down?
pookeythekid Yes Dinnerbone said they owned it for 2 years and that he would do the project. It seems that he isn't since he just tweets about 1.8.1.
pookeythekid True, but I've not exactly had much faith in Mojang's development related promises for a while now. Remember the modding API? I believe that's due to come out any day now.
Does anyone know the current progress of 1.8, Project rainbow is slowing down and spigot is going to release by the end of the month. Lets get a move on
I wouldn't say that the EULA is unrelated. The EULA contributed to the pressure on EvilSeph's back and because of the said pressure, he resigned. When he resigned, Mojang took over and changed the license, then bam. DMCA.
Sure? EvilSeph knew that Mojang owns bukkit and therefore bukkit had not and won't have a problem with the eula.
Evidence? What license change??
Have you been living under a rock? x_x
Everyone I've seen says that the licenses have been the same for all three years Mojang's owned The Bukkit Project. I wasn't aware of any license change.
"Mojang has not authorized the inclusion of any of its proprietary
Minecraft software (including its Minecraft Server software) within the
Bukkit project to be included in or made subject to any GPL or LGPL
license, or indeed any other open source license" ~ Vu Bui
Perhaps a more accurate analysis of the situation would be to say that they have only now decided to enforce a license. Mojang likely didn't realize that the Minecraft Server files were being distributed in Craftbukkit as open source until this whole fiasco.
No, what Vu Bui said has ever been so. Craftbukkit itself was from the beginning infringing mojangs copyright. But Mojang never cared.
They even don't care now! But Vu Bui had to response to Wolvereness the above things, otherwise minecraft_server could be treated as open-source.
If they didn't care now then none of this would have happened lol...
I hope you people are drawing the parallels between the EULA and Craftbukkit.
Uh? They explicitly stated that they are ok with CraftBukkit and the technique applied. If you go there, then you are also assuming that Wolvereness issued the DMCA getting paid by Mojang or Microsoft? Of course modding a proprietary software is problematic in nature, especially with redistributing it. But for those who think they have to surpass the original game beyond doomsday, there is things like Glowstone and Minetest, clearly, but even those may not be 100% safe, for the case of M+M going berserk.
You are aware that the founders of Bukkit were and some are still employed at Mojang?
There is no such thing as "not being aware of the techniques CraftBukkit is using" with Mojang. Maybe Microsoft hasn't been aware .
Lol, craftbukkit was DMCAed by Wolvereness. He could do this, since he released the code under (L)GPL ((craft)bukkit's license), but this license isn't compatible with non open-source software (such as the mc server). That means, that craftbukkit infringes every contributors copyright, until mojang relase ther server under a gpl compatible license (such as MIT).
So that is not related to the EULA (that didn't changed to worse btw)
In case you haven't noticed, Mojang isn't really known for its accountability. They had some of their own employees violating their own EULA, there's no reason why they'd be looking into a project which they consider a little side-hobby. Even when they announced they acquired it, they stated that it's not the official mod project.
I don't really think Microsoft cares right now, either.
Hah, I couldn't agree more. I'm some kid sitting in his chair browsing the Internet, and I know about this entire Bukkit thing. I'd be pretty darn amazed if Microsoft didn't know about this, especially with their purchase of Mojang, who "owned" the Bukkit project. While Microsoft must know about all this, I have not heard a single peep of information about them doing a single thing about it. Perhaps they're doing a few things about it through Mojang (which is still Mojang; they're just owned by Microsoft. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.), but I'd love to at least see some kind of post from Mojang that says Microsoft does have a hand in this. If Mojang already has made a post about that, I'd appreciate a link to it.
Edit: Now, I'm not exactly saying Microsoft can just barge in and choose a side to settle the debate; Wolvereness still has his copyright by law, and that must be respected. But I'd at least like to know if Microsoft has any plans for what to do after the debate is settled, whether it be in Mojang's or Wolvereness' favor.
I think that while this will get resolved eventually, it's not going to happen for awhile. There are a million things that Mojang is prioritizing right now.
Perhaps this whole Bukkit this may not be much of a huge priority for Mojang; they may see that other mods are quickly rising to the occasion, and that everything will be fine once the community adjusts. But I would still be quite surprised if I didn't find it fairly high on their list.
I'm not saying they don't care for Bukkit at all. Vu Bui himself made an announcement here which seems to show they have some wish to get this fixed. But it's rather stalemate-y.
ColonelHedgehog PR crap. I don't believe Vu Bui's statement...
However, I do believe Grum's statement that they have no interest in continuing Bukkit.
Mojang didn't become an official part of Microsoft Studios until today:
That transition likely would have put a lot of other stuff on the backburner, like the fate of Bukkit.
This is an absurd premise. Mojang bought Bukkit and hired its top four programmers two years ago. Everything done in Bukkit since then has quite obviously been with the implicit approval of Mojang, so it would not be a EULA violation. A Mojang employee is not an "end user" of Minecraft.
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
If all of this was done with the implicit approval of Mojang, there would be no problem. But the fact is, they don't really stay on top of things very well. Which is mostly because it's a small business with a big franchise.
Pretty sure it's... dead
It's not such a special statememnt, except for the potential to upset more than necessary - it just won't be Mojang continuing the Bukkit project on their own officially. Their employees might in their free time, if they wanted it, but it should be driven by a community, this is nothing special whatsoever. Of course Bukkit won't be the offical API.
Now you can't force a community to continue a project, neither can you miracle up one to do so, however it's not been Mojang preventing people from continuing, actions to have it end clearly were on side of Wolvereness and EvilSeph (maybe more). That for direct actions, of course you can speculate about causing something indirectly etc.
Just so I can have things put into perspective... About how big is Mojang's entire development team? Like, anything directly related to the game of Minecraft itself, the program of it? It kind of started in a garage with Notch, and I personally believe something like last year would have been a good time to start growing.
(At) Topic: Since the project on github is still unavaible due to DMCA takedown i don't see how development will continue. I also do not believe statements from mojang that they will see that the project will continue since there has to be a reason why the DMCA was issued in the first place.
If we can believe that they are working on the mod-api since almost a year now i see no reason why they would want to continue the bukkit project. Seeing that almost the entire staff is gone now who will or wants to continue the project? New staff? Under the same rules? I really doubt that.
Everything that has been said in the past weeks is PR in my opinion. An 1.8 update can't come out of nowhere since alsmost everything has changed. How can you continue a project that uses obfuscated code under these conditions?
Since Microsoft acquired Mojang i really see no reason why they should continue bukkit or care about it. They have realms now, anyone who wants a minecraft server will have to buy through them. They also do have a lot of cash now. Continuing a project that died weeks ago ... why if they just can make their own. When the mod-api is ready there is no reason to continue bukkit.
Do you see an update? Offical periodic news? The last offical message is from September! All i see is that they try to keep the project alive which is good im thankful for that (I hope that the new team has the motivation to keep it that way) but what mojang really would have to do is get the mod-api ready or implement bukkit as their modding api. Sadly i doubt that this will happen since offical news are "Bukkit IS NOT and WILL NOT BE the official API". I really do not know why they just dont admit that bukkit got more attention than they did. I also believe that without bukkit or other community driven projects minecraft would not be that successfull.
Mojang: Get your priorities straigth or use the bukkit api as your offical mod-api and you get tons of willing coders that will support you and make you rich. Or just say "Bukkit is discontinued" then we can go on! But those PR news are really not helping if the last message is from August/September!
Seeing that it is allowed now to talk about alternatives on the offical Bukkit forum(!) i have no words for that! ... how many signs do you need? You might argue that this was done because they wanted to at least "try" to help .. ok nice .. but how is that helping? Its taking more time to talk about the issues that will come from other projects. Its like a magnet for problems ...
Also you can't download the latest craftbukkit from official sources nowadays! If someone wanted to start coding right now ... how can they test their fresh coded plugin?
If i crawl through the forums i see more posts about alternatives or poeple who are desperate ... they need something they can work with like "The project is dead and will not be continued / We will have an official answer from you in the end of November"
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