Is Bukkit going to continue?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by minezen1, Nov 3, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    minezen1

    Is Bukkit going to continue with its developments? I would appreciate if Bukkit continues with their devs.
     
  2. Offline

    Exit151

    We won't know until we know. God willing, SOON.
     
  3. Offline

    bwfcwalshy Retired Staff

  4. Offline

    asofold

    For sure there are people working on other projects, providing compatibility to Bukkit plugins in one or another way, though some plugins might need to adapt to either projects specialties.
     
  5. Offline

    quakemaster1209

  6. Offline

    Krustymk

    And if you read the above link it says
    Referring back to the 1.8 progress check, this means that almost all work on CraftBukkit, Spigot, and the Bukkit API additions are code complete.
    What i dont understand is why there is so little mention of it here!
     
  7. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Because these are the Bukkit forums, not the Spigot forums. This has never been the place to discuss things that aren't within Bukkit's scope, despite certain parties' attempts to make it into such a place.
     
  8. Offline

    Krustymk

    Correct!, However 'Referring back to the 1.8 progress check, this means that almost all work on CraftBukkit, Spigot, and the Bukkit API additions are code complete' clearly mentions CraftBukkit and Bukkit being almost complete in reference to 1.8 so my point still stands does it not?
     
  9. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Krustymk As far as these forums are concerned, CraftBukkit 1.8 does not exist. Nor will it likely ever exist.
     
  10. Offline

    Krustymk

    Well, if any attitude could get closer to a school kid stomping his feet and saying no im struggling to imagine it!
    If someone else has picked up the torch, people should get behind them not act like a bunch of kids with slapped faces..
     
  11. Offline

    rcade


    It is way too early to conclude that CraftBukkit won't be back. Mojang does not have a time limit to file a DMCA counter notice, which would bring the software back online in 21 days unless Wolvereness filed a lawsuit.
     
  12. Offline

    FerusGrim


    It's likely that, with the Minecraft API supposedly being right around the corner, that Mojang will find little use for Bukkit. Their initial attempts to keep the project alive was most likely just for something to use in the interim, until the release. However, they may have decided that the DMCA, compiled atop everything else, isn't worth the effort to combat.

    EDIT:

    Keeping in mind that Mojang now has the backing of the Microsoft legal team, something tells me that if they had any interest in salvaging Bukkit, it would have been done.
     
  13. Offline

    asofold

    There is a lot of uncertainty about "now" :p.
     
  14. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    Krustymk These place has always been a place for official builds only. There are no official builds. I don't understand why that's so hard for people to understand.

    rcade Oh sure they don't, and I'm not saying they'll never get round to lifting the DMCA (since it would only require them to file a counter notice) especially if they can pull in the assistance of Microsoft's legal team. What I'm saying is that Mojang do not act in a timely manner (other than to tweet about something). They overshoot deadlines by shockingly large margins, and act as if they're capable of meeting those deadlines even when it's clear that it's not going to happen any time soon. I'll give you two examples:

    Minecraft 1.8
    Original planned release date: May
    Actual release date: September

    Modding/Plugin API
    Original planned release date: Some time in 2010 I believe - I think it was intended to come out with one of the beta releases
    Actual release date: Nope...
     
  15. Offline

    asofold

    What is the Spigot team doing with updating an/or rewriting parts of "CraftBukkit and Bukkit"... most people wouldn't mind a legalized fork. There would be questions about who can have OP then, or ifthe bukit.org project will somehow stay related or get reactivated independently otherwise, but at least there will be a 1.8-quasi-Bukkit platform, based on much of the established architecture, unless i am mistaken. How/when/exactly is another question.
     
  16. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    asofold Maybe this is going to make me sound like I don't care about Bukkit or that I'm a bad community member or something, but I'm going to say it anyway:

    I don't want to see Bukkit come back. Bukkit was a fun place to be a part of, and I had a lot of fun during my time using it, but the project has been through too much now. It's far too weighed down to have the momentum that it had before, and attempts to revive it will seem shallow and feel like we're kidding ourselves. If things had gone the way it was planned, Bukkit would have likely gracefully died off, which would have been a great way to go.

    Now, however, that's not possible. Some people seem determined to make sure Bukkit is bled dry before it's cruelly kicked to the curb and disposed of. People shouldn't be trying to bring Bukkit back, because it won't work out well. Now is the time for other projects to take over until their time comes too.

    Nothing last forever, and nor should it.
     
  17. Offline

    asofold

    There is no grace in such. What's the problem with a restart with different/altered personnel? Bukkit will work the same way as before if handled right, provided there is a Bukkit. The activity may get lower but it'll essentially stay the same capable platform. I don't see how it should get worse than it already had been before "the end", except maybe for "general community activity".

    Edit: All this "let it die gracefully" reminds me of killing rather, but it's not going to simply die.
     
  18. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    asofold Because why are they using Bukkit as a name? Why not just continue as "Spigot"? Trying to merge it back under the name of Bukkit would
     
  19. Offline

    asofold

    No problem with renaming it, but as it appears they made a legalized update+maybe-part-recode of somehow-both CraftBukkit and Bukkit, so the "Bukkit project" could actually somehow merge or externalize. I don't insist on that, and i can imagine anything, like projects joining/merging/cooperating/diverging/competing.

    I see anything else in Spigot but shallow.

    Of course it's a peculiar point who will have the authority to update the "official (post-) Bukkit API", for the case that the "classic Bukkit project" would stay a plugin platform only, because there are several other projects relying on the Bukkit API or even CraftBukkit (2 or more serious ones). The naming doesn't matter that much, but the Bukkit project in total (Mojang, Curse/infrastructure, developers, staff, (plugin-devs, server-owners)) can not just be ended by feelings (mostly because of Mojang, Curse, (plugin-devs, server-owners), history), as hard as it may sound.

    I was being informal on the naming, though i did probably not write what you are claiming - of course they could publish a fork of CraftBukkit with recoded parts - they could recode the Bukkit API and make a legalized CraftBukkit fork on base of that altered/renamed API - it's probably not obvious but clearly possible. Also they can contribute to reviving the actual Bukkit project, with the"whole of Bukkit" consisting of more than the developers and staff at that time when they tried to end it forcefully, it also consisted of many more contributors, server owners, plugin developers, Curse, and other. The Spigot projectand community for a little part too, i totally agree upon the possibility that it can be called much differently - however the API which has been built no only by the API developers but also for a part by all past contributors including CraftBukkit and plugin develpers and server owners who had a share in pushing the project to such popularity. You probably know that the Bukkit ecosystem was built on the efforts of others (though including EvilSeph as the only one of the "original few"). Face it - there will be continuation with a Bukkit-API variant and likely also a CraftBukkit variant. For me ex-staff would deserve more fame, but to my judgement you people have forfeit too much of a word on that, e.g. by constant campaigning and side-tracking the current limbo-Bukkit-thing.

    Just accept it was not yours to impose "grace" onto the "whole of Bukkit".

    Err open-source - law - they can and i hope they succeed with it. Probably it's best they rename all and handle it themselves (be there plugins on bukkit.org or a fully revived CB/B or not), because ex-staff can have more peace then. However taking vendetta to Spigot would not make sense, just because some random either-sides-fanboys state random insults on IRC or something like that, if it should be that.

    CraftBukkit had many many more contributors, Spigot had some - if you have a problem with forks, then don't make an open source project allowing for forking. Spigot adds to the fame of Bukkit and their team has been open for contributing to CraftBukkit all the time.

    I don't mind md_5 creating a totally new thing! He once noted that he might. But i prefer right now, that the Spigot team first revives Bukkit + CraftBukkit plugins for 1.8 by what they are doing, because that "end to Bukkit" is not a just thing, it's wrong that way and i'd love to see it mended. Then they can develop something new, if all feel better with it. I am not making jokes on the former staff and won't harass them, but i will not write extra-soft after months of reading their comments, i really don't find this funny. Repeating history isn't always the best, at some point resistance might happen, or just dodging sideways.

    If you refer to the premium plugins, i don't know much about it, but i assume if it was illegal, it would have been stopped already, You are free to enlighten me on details on it all, maybe you can post a link to "which one" or is it "the first one" !?

    Concerning "the new Bukkit"... from side of some former plugin developers, server owners and maybe some former CraftBukkit contributors and probably even several ex-ex-Bukkit-staff, having that wouldn't really pose a problem, other than that there could arise a situation with mutliple projects claiming "lead" on the post-Bukkit-API and maybe post-CraftBukkit, potentially leading to more separation than good. The Bukkit project may or may not get revived with a new lead and maybe even staff, in any case there will be a mid-term Bukkit-plugin-compatible solution, which will also get used a lot, and it may or may not be celebrated as "the new Bukkit". I assume it might, if it's good, but it's too early to say how fast it/which will "stabilize". If you regard the Spigot, they are updating forks of CraftBukkit and Bukkit, as far as i know, so they don't just build some Spigot for their own or something detached like that. If they achieve to recode it to a legal state, they would have brought a major contribution to the survival of Bukkit in terms of "Bukit the code". Currently i don't know if other projects using the Bukkit API are ahead or not, concerning coding, initial testing and overall stability - but they haven't released anything yet, so maybe it still can blow up somehow.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  20. There is currently a community project that has released a "somewhat stable" 1.8 jar with its own plugins as well as a bridge plugin to let bukkit plugins run.

    here is the link to anyone interested and YES they are legal as far as i can tell and have read into.
    http://www.project-rainbow.org/site/index.php

    happy 1.8ing
     
  21. Offline

    asofold

    There is Spigot and Spigot-API and Spigot-Server. So technically they seem to fork Bukkit and CraftBukkit somehow - their recent statemeents indicate that they were updating CraftBukit and Bukkit for 1.8, including setting up a "CraftBukkit" test-server, thus i assume that they keep their efforts separated - but you are right in that i can't know for sure if it's "pure updated CraftBukkit", or if they have added some of their patches in there in a sneaky way, because i haven't seen the code.

    Concerning money: I don't know if there is such a thing/state like being "immoral over commits", but i for sure can tell that an IP-lawyer will want to see some money in return for advice. Without donations, the Bukkit project probably would have collapsed or would have gone at a clearly lower pace earlier on, though donations are said to have ceased then. In addition the size of the infrastructure and project has been "inflated" (probably not the best word) by going with having Curse pay for those, which isn't exactly a negligible fact, despite all the conflicts.

    If you don't want Spigot to be mentioned, you should probably not ask for more details on it, though. It's not that i intend to advertise it in particular

    Diverting to the public announcement about testing phase for 1.8. I don't know what's fake, but it states there would be a CB test server - i rate the probability very high that they had legal advice on how to work around issues.
    I bet some others also wouldn't like it. Still it's not the only way to see this very case. Why are donations for a fork bad, especially if the fork provides lots of changes alongside with improvements, breaking with the strict coding standards, and the restriction to stay as close as possible to vanilla. Spigot is a fairly complex thing, demanding a lot of skill and testing to maintain, not just some automatted process run over CB, donations or not, e.g. i remember Spigot starting to use netty before Minecraft did. Should one suggest that he should have dropped Spigot due to running costs getting too high, or instead try to depend on a company like Curse to run the infrastructure or run it all on a 10 $ VPS...

    So where are we at? There will be forks and/or recoded parts of CraftBukkit and/or Bukkit. Thus the code base won't stay as dead as it may appear to be right now.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  22. Offline

    rcade


    Your thinking is premature. Because of the company sale, Mojang and Microsoft had bigger things to worry about than Bukkit. Mojang only became an official part of Microsoft Studios seven days ago:

    https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/530368089418784768

    Bukkit is not dead. Dinnerbone (one of the four creators of the project) has committed to updating it to 1.8 himself.

    Mojang has owned the rights to the project for two years.


    We don't know how all of this will shake out.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  23. Offline

    FerusGrim

    That's possible. However, with all things, company image is important as well. A large part of the Minecraft community, if not the majority, is aware of Bukkit's situation and is awaiting some sort of assurance or closure. I find it strange either way that a more hands-on approach hasn't been taken to resolve the issue, one way or another.

    Eh. This was also before the takedown request. Wolvereness, regardless of your view on his motives or the morals involved, has a perfectly valid claim. Not only would Dinnerbone have to completely rework every contribution Wolvereness has made (and potentially every contribution someone has made who may take up after Wesley's code is removed and reworked), but he would then have to worry about updating to 1.8.

    All of that on top of, supposedly, releasing the Minecraft API sometime soon... I find it more likely he would just put all that effort into hurrying up their own API.
     
  24. Offline

    asofold

    I think that abstracted view removes the differences between Bukkit+CraftBukkit and Spigot. Is it ok that Bukkit team got money and made a living of modding a game made by another company, even using open source libraries to compile Bukkit-API and CraftBukkit, libraries made by others free of charge? What line-count or number of hours invested will make it its own project?
     
  25. Offline

    Shaggy67

    Of course they can, that's how open source works.
    At this point, that's merely opinion. Whether or not the claim is valid won't be answered unless it goes to court.
    Forking an open source project and selling it commercially is nothing new.

    EDIT by Timtower: merged posts, don't triple post please
     
  26. Offline

    LokiChaos

    The problem, that I haven't seen a planned/proposed solution to, is the impossibility of adhering to the license's terms.

    It's fine to fork, but you do have to comply with the license.
     
  27. Offline

    Shaggy67

    I don't have one, but if I did there would be nothing wrong with you re-distributing it and charging money, as long as you followed the terms of the license.

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

    In theory, couldn't you remove NMS from the CraftBukkit distribution and require the end user to get the minecraft server separately?

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  28. Offline

    timtower Moderator Moderator

    Then you still have enough other stuff to deal with, stuff that is under the DMCA
     
  29. Offline

    Shaggy67

    The DMCA is based on the inclusion of NMS. Removing NMS would make the DMCA moot, wouldn't it?
     
  30. Offline

    timtower Moderator Moderator

    Then you really need to re-read it.
     
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