Bukkit: It's time to say ...

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by EvilSeph, Aug 21, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Offline

    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    [​IMG]


    When we first set out to add our personal touch to what hMod offered the community 3 and a half years ago, none of us foresaw the success the Bukkit project would end up having. From a rocky start that wasn't of our own making (hMod suddenly disappeared without warning while we were just starting up the project, leaving us ill-prepared to fill the void left over), we stepped up to the challenge and managed to put together a usable, respectable alternative to other server mods. We even went so far as to improve on the Minecraft server itself. I can proudly and confidently say that Bukkit was and is a success: not only were we able to provide a platform for hundreds of thousands of Developers to build upon and make use of, we were also frequently providing our Server Admins with peace of mind knowing that the latest exploits and security holes were addressed in a timely and responsible manner.

    From the get go we were plagued with issues and obstacles we needed to overcome, one of which we were sadly unable to tackle despite our best efforts: the legal barrier of licensing and permission. When starting the Bukkit project and even getting involved with hMod before that, we all knew that our work - no matter how well-intentioned - fell into a dangerous legal grey area. As such, my first priority at the start was to do things right: contact Mojang to try and get permission to continue on with the project and discuss our licensing. Unfortunately, while we did get into contact with Mojang and managed to have a chat with Notch and Jeb themselves (who have said that they don't like our methods but understand that there isn't any alternative and are thus fine with what we were and are doing), we never did get an official meeting with their business side to get legally sound permission to continue as we were and were unable to sort out our licensing issues. To this day we find our project in limbo with a half-applied license some could argue is invalid and little power on our end to do anything about the situation.

    With that realisation came a nagging unease at the back of our minds that at any point in time Mojang could decide they didn't like what we were doing and shut us down - something we were all expecting for the first year or so of the project's life but, to our surprise, never occurred. Naturally, Mojang's conscious decision to not take action on our project gave us the confidence to continue on (something which I'm sure Server Admins out there can relate to given the recent, sudden and unexpected EULA enforcement) and we even later got further confirmation from Notch himself that we were and are allowed to keep proceeding as we always had.

    Fast forward to more recent times and Mojang have made the abrupt and sudden decision to start enforcing their EULA in an effort to quell the outlook of Minecraft being pay to win. While I can completely understand where they are coming from and support their mission to shut down pay to win servers, it's difficult to be supportive of their abrupt turn-around with enforcing rules they consciously decided not to enforce since the start of Minecraft. On top of this, there are also clauses - which it would be irresponsible of us not to be aware of - within the now suddenly enforced EULA that directly affect the Bukkit project.

    Most notably: "The one major rule is that you must not distribute anything we've made". While the EULA does go on to try and clarify what is meant by "anything we've made", I feel that it only serves to confuse the situation even more so. At the end of the day, it seems that Mojang can determine what is a "mod, plugin or hack" of their game on the fly and their recent abrupt turn-around on enforcing the EULA has us understandably worried. Couple this with the fact that it isn't legally viable or acceptable to enforce the EULA piecemeal and our future is clear.

    At this point in time, I think it's safe to say that it's no longer worth it for us to put up a fight when it comes to keeping Bukkit and modding alive. With large and significant changes coming in Minecraft 1.8 that we'll be hard pressed to provide support for and the lack of support from Mojang with updates since acquiring our original core team (Mojang used to provide us with mappings to speed up the update process), there is little motivation for us to continue limping on across various aspects of the project. From a project management standpoint, it's become increasingly difficult to find willing and able individuals to help out the project on a purely voluntary basis due to people losing interest in Minecraft or people looking for something more. Simply put, this was ultimately the final nail in the coffin.

    Nonetheless, no one can deny that we've had a fantastic run as a project. This is due in no small part to the support we received and continue to receive from both the Minecraft community and the many companies and organisations that have graciously chosen to support us with a ridiculous amount of resources, infrastructure and backing - far more than we could have ever asked for. No amount of words can adequately express the gratitude we have for all our sponsors who have supported us through our journey and ensured Bukkit had the infrastructure required to be the vast success it is today. To list all of what these sponsors have done for us would be a post equal in length to this one, so we will unfortunately need to keep it brief. We want to give huge shout-outs and thanks to: eXophase.com for getting us off our feet and hosting us at the start; Multiplay and Curse for swooping in and providing us with (emergency) hosting we continue to use to this day including dl.bukkit.org and our BukkitDev service; as well as AllGamer for providing us test servers whenever we needed a server to certify update and promoted builds or attempt to reproduce a bug report.

    Last, but definitely not least, we'd like to thank the many staff, both past and present, that have volunteered countless hours over the years. I am at a loss for words to express just how much these people have meant to the project and to myself. The core team who have constantly worked hard to update to every new Minecraft version, while adding in new API and improving the server itself. The BukkitDev staff who spend countless hours checking over the fantastic plugins our community creates. Our moderation staff keeping our forums orderly and safe for all people seeking out a great community to be a part of. Additionally, the many unsung people who have helped in various ways despite having no official title, simply because there was work to do. Finally, my administrators, who have tirelessly helped me keep the project functioning as a whole. I would especially like to thank TnT and mbaxter for sticking through it with me to the end, always ready to discuss an issue and provide me with advice.

    It's been a fantastic 3 and a half years of providing what we believe to be the absolute best modding platform for the wonderful Minecraft community to use. We really enjoyed seeing the amazing feats our many Developers and Server Admins achieved with the product we provided and continue to be amazed every day at the ingenuity our community shows. Thanks for everyone's continued support! It has and will continue to mean the world to us. Together we were able to provide a Minecraft server used by hundreds of thousands of servers out there (with our last Recommended Build having over 2.6 million downloads!), which is certainly something to be proud of and a great note to end on.

    This is the end, it's time to say goodbye. It's been an amazing run and we achieved much more than anyone thought was possible, even ultimately culminating in Mojang hiring our original core team. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end and the Bukkit project has run its course, leaving me to make one final - incredibly difficult - decision to shut down the project I’ve poured 3 and a half years of my life into which means so much to me. We're no longer able to confidently distribute our modified versions of the Minecraft server and it is no longer smart for us to continue with our update process. Sadly, this means we will NOT be updating Bukkit nor CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.8 and, since Minecraft 1.7.10 introduced the EULA enforcement, we will be placing the project under a code freeze for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, due to obvious legal reasons we will not be helping anyone else complete any updates nor sharing our methods despite any desire to the contrary. Although the project itself will essentially be no more, we'll continue to support our community, the forums, IRC and BukkitDev as long as we are able and as long as our partners support us with the resources and infrastructure to do so.

    As for us? Well, who knows? Maybe we'll find another game, program or project to be passionate about and we'll be back with a vengeance? Only time will tell, but I hope that we'll see you around the next passion-project of ours when it happens :)


    [lukegb]There's more to come on this. Please read this for more information about where we stand.[/lukegb]
     
  2. Offline

    Meatiex

    Great job Bukkit Team, I haven't read every twiter update and stuff, but I get the idea that Bukkit will not be updated by the Bukkit Team and Mojang will be taking control or it and updating it.
    TnT decided to close the project because of EULA, I think mojang is going to kill multiplier, i'm sorry but its what any company would do.
    I hope Spigot stays up...
    1.7.9 could be the last update that most servers stay at.
     
  3. Offline

    Rydian

    Twitter is a perfectly-valid medium for official statements and responses to the public. I can pull up multiple references of companies like Sega giving official responses through Twitter and these responses being cited as sources in news and information if you'd like. As somebody else mentioned, Mojang considers their twitter posts important and informative enough to link to them in multiple places, such as...

    Their website...
    [​IMG]

    The minecraft.net home page...
    [​IMG]

    And in the game launcher itself...
    [​IMG]

    In addition, the most important statements being discussed here are by Dinnerbone and Jeb, who are literally the lead programmers for Minecraft (though Dinnerbone is usually the one doing the more social things as Jeb still doesn't seem too comfortable with his English).

    We're not dealing with EA or any publisher-inflicted restrictions here. Mojang has always been upfront with information and willing to answer questions directly themselves, and there's plenty of official statements given through Twitter. Mojang does not rely on official spokepeople for daily statements, and something is not void just because they do not have one of those.

    The only reason the EULA is being mentioned is because Seph is sore over it. The decision to shut down was done by the Bukkit team, not Mojang (Mojang wasn't even aware of the situation until Seph made this announcement).

    Dinnerbone hasn't done anything here in two years. He has an account with admin access, but as far as I can see he has left the running of bukkit.org up to others. Same with Grum, last stuff two years ago.

    On the one hand I don't see why they need to go and repost the same info repeatedly on various sites when they talked about the situation already and their posts are being echo'd by others.

    On the other hand one of them posting about the current situation here would be nice, to inform people that aren't reading all the threads thoroughly (which is a lot of people as we've seen).

    It wasn't just the first commit, he started the project in general, and has the most commits (though it's definitely not a dick contest or anything, it shows that he worked on it for a while, not just once like your statement implies).

    He left the daily running of it to others. But now they've decided to stop (for various reasons, some legit and totally understandable), which is why he's stepped in to update it since the others won't.

    Also Seph seems to have forgotten a lot about who else is involved in Bukkit, with him trying to shut it down himself~

    The official API will be for plugins opposed to direct mods (the technical difference being that mods replace base class files which needs to be avoided for compatibility, consider Forge it's own mod API while forge 'mods' are plugins), you can read some of the proposed design and ideas (and potentially a few responses) here.
    https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCAPI
     
    Enzer likes this.
  4. Offline

    killajk2201

    I MUST MAKE IT my MISSION to CONTINUE THE BUKKIT PROJECT
     
  5. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    ... No, he didn't start it in general. This project started with a group of people that had similar Ideas and joined together to make Bukkit.

    I also never said he only worked on it once, don't know where you're getting that from. Don't put words in my mouth.

    He's always left the community to others, and since he started working with Mojang, washed his hands completely of Bukkit. While I'm not upset with him coming to update the project, I am upset with how he handled the situation. If he wanted Bukkit to run so passionately then why did he not participate since working with Mojang? Unlike EvilSeph, who actually contributed to the project on his free time after getting hired.

    Everyone that was currently involved with the project was approached in this decision. We did not consult anyone else (Read: Mojang employee's) as they showed no interest or care in Bukkit until after the fact.
     
  6. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    Were you there? Involved in the talks? Asked to join at the start of bukkit? Or is this your opinion based on hearsay?

    Well it would seem there are some community members who are upset with the way evilseph has handled the situation, how is this relevant?

    It is interesting that the only individual who had the information regarding the ownership of bukkit (read: evilseph) showed no interest or care in letting them (read: mojang the owners) know there was a problem or that the leadership of bukkit did not seem to be able to get and retain enough volunteers to keep the project going.

    This is the problem with these kinds of situations. For every logical fallacy you present after the fact there is a logical fallacy that can be presented as a counter. You seem to wish to spin this as mojangs fault, so it is all mojangs fault and evilseph is awesome. I used to actually respect some of you guys and thought you were pretty decent folks. As this situation has unfolded I am coming to the conclusion that respect may have been misplaced.

    Oh and feildmaster you still have not answered my question about why you tagged my roommate bastion in the post above?
     
    Enzer likes this.
  7. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    Were... you? /end discussion

    (to the discussion other than to spin things a certain way and out of context)

    Now for the volunteers... No, in the past 2 years, there have been very few people that have actively made contributions to bukkit that seemed trustworthy or able to take the reigns of Bukkit. The few that were possibly able to have, like many others, many other responsibilities that don't allow for the time and dedication needed to run a project like Bukkit.

    I'm simply trying to stress the point that Mojang, a company who have not showed any interest or provided help whatsoever supposedly as the "owners" of bukkit, wishes to save this sinking boat called Bukkit, completely disregarding and slapping the face of everyone that participates in Bukkit, be it publicly as in EvilSeph's case, or the people that don't openly participate on the forums (Read: People like me). Bukkit has been dying for a long time running now and Mojang simply slapped the lovely members of the Bukkit Project in the face and used EvilSeph as a scapegoat by proceeding as they have and staying quiet for days afterwards.

    If you take this statement as "I hate Mojang, and love Evilseph" then okay. I have no reason to respond to you further. If that is the only way I come off to you, then nothing I say will make you consider otherwise as anything I say will be regarded as prejudice by you.

    I find you and your "roomate" to have the same type of mannerisms, and if I still had mod powers I would have banned you for Multi-accounts.
     
    Eathuis, BossEndorphin and slipcor like this.
  8. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    feildmaster I guess bastion and I are grateful you do not have mod powers. I have not been active on these forums for quite some time. I also have a low post count mainly because I did not have any desire to deal with the way these forums were handled. My roommate bastion runs a server and at times has spent time on these forums. He told me about all the drama so I spent some time reading up on what you all have been up to for the last couple of years. I am not sure what "mannerisms" are when it come to the internet, maybe it is the way we write considering we went to the same high school and had the same english teacher? Or is it the way we express ourselves? Having been arguing and discussing stuff since we were in grade school. What ever you think the fact that you would ban us both with out proof other than a shared IP proves you are not worth having a discussion with. Which takes me back to my first point of why I have not spent time on these forums for so long.

    EDIT: No where is the bukkit TOS are multi accounts even mentioned much less a bannable offense so even if bastion and I were the same person (which again I state we are not) your threat to ban both of us is as arbitrary as everything else around here seems to be.

    Where in any of my posts have I accused you of either of those things? Now you are twisting my words to change the narrative.

    I will agree to never state that dinnerbone started bukkit by himself if you agree to not state he did not. /end of discussion

    Take care and good luck with your future endeavors, my guess is those endeavors will not include being involved with mojang on the official API.
     
    Enzer likes this.
  9. Offline

    Necrodoom

    "I state wrong information! You will not correct me!"

    Bukkit team is a team, not a single person.
     
  10. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    Wow, you folks are an interesting mix. Where did I state any wrong information? Also where did I tell anyone not to correct me with factual information as opposed to hearsay?

    Bukkit is a team, a broken quitting team. I am not surprised at this outcome based on how I have been treated the few time I have bothered to be here. This statement is not a statement of fact, it is purely based on my opinion.
     
  11. Offline

    Skye

    Padeius Etoh If you don't care much for the community, why spend your time arguing here? For the sake of arguing?
     
    BossEndorphin and _LB like this.
  12. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    LOL. No, I actually started out asking a couple of simple questions of feildmaster regarding dinnerbone and bukkit. They seem to have taken exception to that. The weirdest part is they never answered one of the question directly, go figure. Laters.
     
  13. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Padeius Etoh Aside from the fact that the quoted post has you saying you will spread wrong information if tried to correct you, that dinnerbone wasnt the only bukkit developer?

    You seem to keep flaming and creating useless drama for no reason at all other than to show how little you know.
     
  14. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    I am going to respond to this purely to correct the record. The quoted post:

    This quote says I will never state dinnerbone started bukkit alone. Having never stated that dinnerbone started bukkit alone, I am not sure how you get I have stated wrong information. Maybe its the word never that tripped you up, not really sure.

    I have also never stated anywhere that dinnerbone was the only bukkit dev. So neither of the accusations in the first sentence of your post have any basis in fact.

    I will honestly tell you I know almost nothing. I asked a couple of simple question, I do not know where I flamed anyone and also to say I am creating useless drama, look in the mirror. Why did you feel the need to weigh in on this discussion between me and feildmaster at all? What have you added to the discussion other than to attack me for saying something I did not and have never said?

    See ya.
     
  15. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    No, you're right. All you did was ask me questions that were so out of context I had no idea how to respond to them, therefor I gave you the most long winded responses I could muster, as a spur to get you to reply again. Now let me board the EvilSephIsAwesome train since you're leaving.
    /end sarcasm

    I must say, you would probably be good friends with Wolvereness (your most recent comment was very "Wolvereness-like"). Thank you for asking such odd questions, for I rather enjoyed responding to them, even if you think I haven't.
     
  16. Offline

    asofold

    I think there is too much heat about the one or two knwon statements of who starts and who ends what. My thoughts evolve around the question, why this appears to happen so "sudden", despite so many people knowing so many things, and still "seemingly stating or acting otherwise" - there must be a lot of confusion around.

    Assuming that Dinnerbone still has some empathy left for Minecraft and Bukkit (could in theory), you could as well assume that he did not in the first place think of how many people "he" might have been back when Bukkit started, when confronted with EvilSeph declaring a supposedly slightly early-dated end of Bukkit.

    I remember discussions about discussing the process of updating and that there were "secrets", some claimed to be "secrets", others claimed to be not so secret. A more transparent way of discussing the process of updating with others could have lead to a better system that also can involve more people due to then employed methods and techniques, but that's just speculation. I guess we are lacking all the background information, so...
     
  17. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    I'm sorry, I'm just not following you on this... what are you trying to get at?
     
  18. Offline

    asofold

    a) "i started" could just mean "i was part of starting it". Assuming that people always write 100% PR-proof stuff is over-estimating things, especially in that situation, which...

    b) outsiders don't know much about - there is quite some lack a lot of information, and ....

    c) some people knew a lot more than others, and some people don't seem to make use of their knowledge (Yet), and...

    d) the updates getting too difficult, belongs into the category of "how do you do it" as well, thats why that foggy memory, and finally

    e) i wrote that before the preceding two posts.
     
  19. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    feildmaster
    Thanks for the complement, if you actually mean it @Wolvereness seems like a cool guy, I don't know him but thanks. Also thanks for clearing up whether the discussion was bothering you I am glad it was not.

    When I said fault mojang that is a far cry from hating mojang just as thinking evilseph is awesome is a ways away from loving him. I guess I can see where you would go to hate and love from the statement but that is not what I meant.
     
  20. Offline

    AleksaSavic

    OMG! You are arguing here while Bukkit is shutting down! I am so sad about that. I planned to help them via Github. The information that the Mojang bought Bukkit 2 years ago totally shocked me. Does that mean that Mojang will keep developing Bukkit + Minecraft at the same time? I will keep Bukkit on my machine and never stop using it. As for public servers... I wanted to make a Bukkit one, but now all I have got is gone. My hope and my will for that. Now I feel like I lost a friend forever. A valuable part of my life is completely ruined. I will continue using it but... I will never have the same feeling. Well, I will try to switch to Spigot. I hope it will work even better than Bukkit did for me.
    Just listen to Greensleeves while reading the first post. Just my 2 cents.

    :'(
     
  21. Offline

    robotnikthingy

    It is both dead and alive. Its Schrödinger's bukkit
     
    Eathuis, Rydian and obscurehero like this.
  22. Offline

    obscurehero

    It can be. However, usually you have the person in charge of public relations run the twitter feed for your company. One of the marks of poor leadership here is their inability to have one united story. Grum should not be commenting on the legal interpretations of a EULA, for example. Twitter being used by project developers to announce new features or discuss new snapshots is perfectly acceptable. Twitter being used to announce business, legal, or administrative decisions... by developers... is a bit unprofessional.

    AFAIK, Dinnerbone left all IRC channels related to Bukkit and had essentially left the team. Much like sk89q had a prominent role in early Bukkit, and has now moved on to other things. Grum was still a lurker in minecraft-related chat, but I don't think he had any role within bukkit. I have not heard mention that he was still present for meetings and the like.

    It not only would be 'nice'. It's the professional thing to do, because most people don't read though all these threads to figure out what sort of nonsense Mojang is up to this time.

    EvilSeph announced this after talking with and discussing the decision with the Bukkit staff. This is an example of good leadership. That is, making a decision and taking ownership of it after making sure that you and your team have had a chance to discuss the particulars and are on the same page. ES actually managed this quite professionally.

    Mojang is not the white knight here, but I'm glad that they're helping Bukkit make it to 1.8.
     
    Skye and slipcor like this.
  23. Offline

    minepress


    #bukkitdev [​IMG]
     
  24. Offline

    Enzer

    You do know that the dev's twitter accounts are 99% personal accounts, right? Or are you saying that the devs are not allowed to talk about how they personally see things. I know the MC community at large has this issue with understand what someone's personal opinion is as to an official statement from a company at large, but that isn't on the people making the tweets.

    So far Mojang has not made an official statement, and they probably will not until after they have had internal discussions on the matter. In the mean time Mojang had to release information of some kind to stop people from going insane and to defuse the bomb that EvilSeph left with his original post. However, what we saw was not official statements from Mojang, but rather personal discussions from the MC head developer (Jeb) reminding EvilSeph who ultimately controls Bukkit (Something that has been reiterated over and over by the various MC devs, including Ryan Holtz saying "He[EvilSeph] knew damn well the fact that Mojang had purchased Bukkit itself."). This was followed by Dinnerbone saying that he would personally update Bukkit to 1.8. That "personally" is important because that can either mean that he will be doing it on behalf of Mojang as an employee or be doing the update as a independent personal matter. This is all perfectly acceptable until the point where Mojang as a company has made their decisions on what they want to do.

    I disagree wholeheartedly with this unless EvilSeph comes out and makes an official statement to counter everything his old co-wokers have stated saying that he had knowledge that Mojang owned Bukkit as well as the fact that Mojang could have been contacted at any point if the Bukkit Devs needed help with something, as Grum says, they only had to ask and even TnT stated that no one on the team made an attempt to contact Mojang.

    This is vital information that EvilSeph should have brought up during these professional team meetings and if there was some reason or contract that prevented him from discussing it he should have gotten in direct contact with Mojang to either ask for permission to bring this up or to let them know that "Hey, we are stepping down from development, go figure out what you want to do". Instead he writes a very drama heavy post that everyone who worked with him in the past knows is full of b/s and is disinformation and that he was fully aware of and then just kind of squats and drops in Mojang's lap.

    While I will agree that Mojang is very bumbling at time, trying to say that how Bukkit as led by EvilSeph has handled this situation was such a great example of leadership and professionalism is a bunch of bull. :/
     
  25. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    Yes, he has indeed rejoined the IRC channels (and actually talked once in a blue moon) since "taking over the project."

    I fail to see how your comment does anything other than try to mislead people.

    Sorry for your loss. :(

    There is no reason to communicate with an entity that does not participate at all in the project, even if they were the "owners." They were not around to support us during their time of "ownership," they expressed that of a "Hands off" attitude, therefore why include them in the discussion with the people that makes this project actually tick?

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  26. Offline

    Enzer

    When the discussion is about shutting down a property that they do not know? You know, what we are actually talking about?

    It is one thing to have a discussion to step down, if that was all the post was about it would have been fine and dandy and Mojang could deal with that however they want. However it is an entire other thing for the head of the team, who has intimate knowledge about the situation, to go both falsely blame Mojang as a reason the project is shutting down and to further attempt to shut down a project when he knew he did not have the rights to do so.

    That is when you talk with the owners, don't be dense with me.
     
    Rydian likes this.
  27. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    The owners are the community, the people involved. Mojang doesn't own me any more than they own EvilSeph.

    None of us are Mojang employees. The EULA does effect us, even if you want to feign ignorance. Sure, they could choose not to enforce it on certain individuals or event the project as a whole, but that does not protect every participant of the project.

    Don't you dare state my reply is dense, I'm telling you the high and low of the situation before Mojang surprised the world about their desire to run/continue Bukkit.

    Now that's enough about me, let me ask you this: If you were part of a company, as you may or may not be, what would you do if you never saw a Supervisor in your life? What would you do if you were never given (or never had the ability to use) any of the company mandated equipment? Would you consider your "boss" your owner yet still?

    Lets take this to a normalized household situation: You have a pet. This pet is never fed, played with, walked, or taken care of in any manner. Does this pet still consider you to be an owner? Does this pet try to leave you in search for what it needs?
     
  28. Offline

    Enzer

    The individuals might own their individual contributions, but in the real world the name, project and repo belong to Mojang, they bought it from Curse who bought it from Dinnerbone and the other founders.

    Wrong, Jeb, the head of Minecraft Development stated that Bukkit is protected from the EULA and has been since they bought it two and a half years ago. This isn't an issue of "Oh, Mojang isn't enforcing the EULA on Bukkit" it is an issue of "Bukkit, as a property of Mojang, is completely untouched by the EULA". Because the entire project is exempt from the EULA, they cannot go after individual contributors, that doesn't make sense.

    EvilSeph did work on Bukkit while working for Mojang and when he left Mojang he just continued doing work on Bukkit. Everyone who worked with EvilSeph (Jeb, Dinnerbone, Grum, and Ryan Holtz who was a contractor at the time) stated that he was well aware of these facts, as EvilSeph even points out, this information was part of his employee contract.

    The founding members knew this information, as it is pretty clear when Mojang bought it to clear up any legal issues Bukkit might have had. Ask EvilSeph who never left the project why he never brought this up.

    In this silly anaology, your supervisor is EvilSeph. EvilSeph lead the Bukkit Development Team. According to his old co-workers at Mojang, EvilSeph knew while he was still a Mojang Employee and after he quit various things such as the fact that Mojang owned the project and that all he had to do was contact Grum or someone if they needed something like the mappings for the latest version.

    This is information that all of his co-workers are stating that he knew, that EvilSeph is not denying he knew, and that EvilSeph has confirmed off hand by mentioning that yeah, this was covered in my contract to be hired by Mojang.

    As so many people have pointed out, while working at Mojang, EvilSeph was leading development at Bukkit. He was Mojang's face for Bukkit at that time. That is your supervisor right there. When EvilSeph left Mojang, he did not step down from his role as head development. So the person who lead of Bukkit for at two and a half years knew everything in regards the situation between Mojang and Bukkit. It is not Mojang's fault that EvilSeph made the decision to not share this information with the team he was working with, that is all on him as team leader.
     
  29. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    EvilSeph is not an employee of Mojang, therefore, he is not a supervisor. He is a Co-Worker, or even my Boss. He is not, however, employed by Mojang, so he is not an official Supervisor. If anything, through all this, in all intents and purpose, he was the sole acting owner of Bukkit.

    Why does an "employee" need to ask for "equipment"? Is that not the "owners" responsibility? And the mappings are simply a small part in the update process. As one who frequently updated Bukkit, on my own if needed, I understand what is needed in the update process. You, who do not know the implications, need not comment on this small part.

    Their ownership is irrelevant, as it was not apparent as they did not participate. How many times must I tell you?

    No, he worked on his spare time and never as a Mojang employee. He assumed the role he always had from the beginning "The head of Bukkit, the PR manager, etc."

    He never stepped down from Bukkit when going to work for Mojang. As the beginning of your statement is invalid, I can only stress that the rest of your response is invalid as well.

    EvilSeph only did as he always did: "Ran Bukkit."
     
    Eathuis, _LB, Skye and 7 others like this.
  30. Offline

    Enzer

    Between your past two posts and what other interesting things I am going to just assume that you don't know what you are talking about and end this line of discussion. :/
     
  31. Offline

    Gamecube762

    While I am not entering in this discussion, I would like to point out how many likes post #460 got within the 25 minutes of feildmaster posting and me posting. I would also like to point out feildmaster IS a Bukkit Team Member. Being that, I'm pretty sure that feildmaster knows what hes talking about.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page