Bukkit gives the developer no freedom.

Discussion in 'BukkitDev Information and Feedback' started by Neilnet, Jun 25, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    Neilnet

    Damnit Bukkit, you're getting more worse as we speak. I created a plugin, then I asked someone to sponsor me a server to test it out on, they agreed to do this. So I get a free server and a free mySQL server. Now, in return I have to state their host on my bukkit page.

    So mbaxter sends me a message like this
    [​IMG]


    Guess what? Bukkit plugin developers spend so much time developing plugins in their free time. They should at least have freedom in their own page and they should be allowed to do anything they want (apart from spread viruses).

    I can't work on a MySQL update if the host that sponsors me finds out that I've stopped doing this.

    Not to mention, in the submission guidelines it only states that you are not allowed to advertise your server.

    I would like to know why this isn't allowed and where it says it isn't allowed.

    So thanks Bukkit, this is kinda selfish of you,
    Neil.
     
    PandazNWafflez and Z5T1 like this.
  2. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Because a bukkit project page is not the place to advertise unrelated products that have nothing to do with bukkit at all?

    Let's say I make a project, and slap a "click this referal link and complete surveys!", why would such a thing be approved, at all?
     
  3. Offline

    Neilnet


    There happens to be no incentive for developers to create things for free (other than the very bad points system). Additionally server hosting is some what related to bukkit. I've also stated in my link posted above that it doesn't say that this isn't allowed.
     
  4. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Yet advertising a host has nothing to do with your bukkit plugin and so has no reason to belong there.
    If you want to be paid for making plugins, this isnt really the place for you. dev.bukkit.org is for creating plugins, for fun, and to provide a better experience for server owners, exactly why you see so many plugins on there, and even massive plugins, which gain no money from this. This is a game, not a job.

    And, i think its obvious enough that a bukkit project is not a page to advertise stuff, considering advertising servers, referral links, and the like, are not allowed. What makes you think advertising a host would somehow be exempt?
     
    timtower, JaguarJo and mazentheamazin like this.
  5. Offline

    mazentheamazin

    I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was making a living off of the curse points system from their Bukkit plugin.
     
    xize likes this.
  6. Offline

    Neilnet


    That is true, though I'd just like to point out that I don't make any money from advertising them. I get a free MySQL server and a minecraft server to test out my plugins. Without this, I don't see how exactly I can code the MySQL update that people have been waiting on. Secondly, on Bukkit, there are thousands of threads of what server host I should use, so this doesn't make a difference at all. I'm not forcing the user to buy whatever they sell.

    I kinda do see why this isn't allowed now, though it isn't very specific in the rules. Would I be allowed to change it to "Being sponsored by ...host"

    Also, one of the biggest plugins, Enjin plugin promotes their website's paid features ("Please see Enjin.com for all the website features DonationCraft offers!").

    [​IMG]
    So, I can't really see how this is much different to what I'm doing, and I'm sure there are also a few other bukkit plugin pages that promote a paid product.


    But yeah, if bukkit staff feel that they can be picky on something that doesn't really affect the community that much. I'll change it resulting in no mySQL update for my plugin.
     
  7. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Neilnet you say you don't get money, but you still get paid for your advertising, in the form of a server.
    Basically, the host is telling you to break the bukkit project guidelines on purpose, yes? That's quite sad, really. Also, advertising is not 'forcing' to buy something, its the fact that it has nothing to do with the topic, so I don't see how saying 'I'm not forcing the user to buy whatever they sell.' exempts you from this, except the fact that if you did you would get your project removed as a whole due to being paid plugin.

    Also, a bukkit plugin project has little to do with the bukkit forums, the topic and context is entirely different, hosts are relevant to general minecraft discussion, not a bukkit plugin.

    If you feel enjin or other plugins are breaking the bukkit project guidelines, feel free to report them, and see staff's response on the matter. Just because someone added it after the project approval doesn't mean it will never break the guidelines again.
     
  8. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    As per the Curse TOS you may not post advertising on your submissions.

    As I explained to you via PM, if a host wishes to advertise on BukkitDev they may do so through Curse's advertising platform. If they wish to provide you with a free server they are welcome to do so, but it's not free if they require you to post ads ;). It is the host's decision to refuse you the server if you don't violate the Curse TOS for them, not ours.

    As for other pages advertising, I'm slowly working on catching that. :)

    Lastly, nothing is stopping you from running a MySQL server on your personal computer. I've done that for years for my testing.
     
    JOPHESTUS likes this.
  9. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Says the guy with an advertising signature as big as a billboard. :oops:
     
  10. Offline

    Garris0n

    3/4ths of it is advertising plugins, though...
     
  11. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Please point to which of the links is a hosting service. We allow community and BukkitDev plugin advertising in signatures.
     
    JOPHESTUS and timtower like this.
  12. Offline

    zombiekiller753

    mbaxter
    Not to start an argument, but like Garris0n said, 3/4th.

    Joe.to isn't a plugin, is it?
     
  13. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Please read my response.
     
  14. Offline

    Bobcat00

    mbaxter OK so maybe you can explain this to me, because I must be dense because I've read it multiple times and don't understand what is and isn't allowed.

    "You can link to your homepage or favorite site, but you can’t use it for advertising..."

    Please explain to me how a link to a homepage or favorite site would not be advertising. Unless you refer to "advertising" in a strictly commercial sense.

    "...unless it's for your Minecraft server or your plugins." (emphasis added)

    So is joe.to "your" site? You're the owner?
     
    indyetoile likes this.
  15. Offline

    ZanderMan9

    So wait... What exactly is preventing you from moving forward? Is the person who gave you the free server requiring you to advertise for them? Can't you simply leave the "advertising" off, and continue using the free server for your development? Am I missing something here?
     
    timtower, AoH_Ruthless and mbaxter like this.
  16. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Bobcat00 This is the last off-topic post I'll make to this topic, and I may start deleting further offtopic posts (Please take this to PM if you're still confused), but joe.to is a community I've helped maintain for half a dozen years.. I would certainly consider it my community.

    ZanderMan9 I don't believe you're missing anything.
     
    JOPHESTUS and timtower like this.
  17. Offline

    Z5T1

    • Insulting and abusive behavior.
    You're acting like a Nazi. You get the final word, and anyone who says otherwise is silenced. Why don't you just make sure plugins aren't malicious instead of placing more and more restrictions on plugin developers. I agree with neilnet entirely: Bukkit is getting worse every day. You have made it clear to me in this thread that the Bukkit staff no longer have any interest in the community, but only in making money for Curse.

    Heil BükkitDevStaffen!
     
  18. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Z5T1 that's just a flame bait for the point of flame bait.
    If you want to argue about the restrictions, argue with curse, not bukkit staff. You clearly haven't read the response by mbaxter, since curse TOS disallows such advertising in projects.
     
  19. Offline

    Z5T1

    Necrodoom I read this whole thread through before posting thank you very much.

    Ever since Bukkit partnered with Curse, their focus has drifted away from the community. Their primary focus is no longer the community, but rather making their sponsor (Curse) happy, whatever effect that may have on the community.
     
    TheSimpZone and Wilee999 like this.
  20. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Z5T1 ..what?
    The only thing the happened here is the enforcement of curse TOS, nothing more, nothing less.
    Apperentally, following the curse TOS and the bukkitdev guidelines (which are quite common sense, being nothing more than no advertising, no offensive content, no malicious, no violation of license and copyright) is ignoring the community. You have taken this single example and made a mountain out of a mole hill.

    If you think you can do better than curse, show us then, host the entire bukkit plugin library, and the forums, pay to developers for their plugin downloads, and all without taking a single cent from the bukkit staff.
     
  21. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    You've been banned for insulting our staff. You can find another site to partake in, this behavior is unacceptable.
     
  22. Offline

    Bobcat00

    The bukkitdev guidelines are more restrictive than that.
    What?
     
  23. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Which one you have a problem with, exactly?

    curse points redeemable for paypal?
     
  24. Offline

    Bobcat00

  25. Offline

    Necrodoom

  26. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Right. I'm just saying the guidelines are more restrictive than what you stated: "no advertising, no offensive content, no malicious, no violation of license and copyright". A plugin can conform with your list, but still be unacceptable to BukkitDev.
     
  27. Offline

    Necrodoom

    Bobcat00 fine then, also protection of the rights of developers and the users who use the website, something that isn't farfetched and you are likely to find in most communty-based content hosts, as you wouldn't like that someone takes your project and declares it as your own, even if you haven't licensed it. I could also list no spam and such but its really going off to commonsense rules.
     
  28. Offline

    Bobcat00

    But in this case it was licensed! The GPLv3 license explicitly allows (even encourages!) people to modify it and redistribute it. If someone didn't want their plugin to be modified and redistributed, they shouldn't have licensed it under GPLv3.

    EDIT: "declares it as your own" - GPLv3 requires the original author information to remain intact, so no one is declaring it as their own. The author history is quite clear.
     
    zombiekiller753 likes this.
  29. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    How could anyone have a problem with us saying that no one is allowed to take a project such as Essentials, change the name to Bobcat00Essentials and distribute it on BukkitDev? You're still free to fork the project and make your own changes, just not distribute it on BukkitDev. This does not go against any open source license, as the license allows you to fork a project and redistribute it - which you have done with GitHub or the code repository of your choice. BukkitDev is for distributing plugins you've created or been given control over by the original author.

    I cannot imagine any instance where anyone would agree that BukkitDev should be used for forking someone else's project and calling it your own. BukkitDev automatically marks the project as your own when you create it. GPL would be violated if we allowed these kinds of projects.
     
    drtshock likes this.
  30. Offline

    Bobcat00

    TnT - I'm simply pointing out that BukkitDev is more restrictive than what Necrodoom posted earlier. I have no beef with your policy or your right to run the site anyway you deem fit (that should be clear from the other thread).

    And, no, it would not be a violation of GPLv3, as all copyright notices must be left intact:
     
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