Will the DMCA claim Expire?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Mike1022, Dec 18, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    Mike1022

    So, I was thinking about the DMCA thing. Then I thought, "Wait, since there wasn't a trial or anything, the claim can't stand forever."

    In most U.S. cases, it's innocent until proven guilty. In this case, it's guilty until proven innocent.

    So I have come to ask what you think. Is there an expire date for DMCA claims?

    Or is this just another problem with the broken U.S. copyright system?
     
  2. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Mike1022 Think of all the damage that could be done if big corporations could infringe upon your rights and you needed to take them to court (which would take a lot of time and money) before it could be stopped. A broken system? I don't think so. Susceptible to abuse through invalid claims? Of course. Although bare in mind that there can be severe legal trouble for abusing the system.

    As for the actual question, no there isn't an expiry date. A counter-notice has to be filed.
     
    mactso and pookeythekid like this.
  3. Offline

    Shaggy67

    There isn't an expiration, but whoever is responsible for uploading the allegedly infringing files can send a counter-claim. The problem in this instance is that all of those people quit.

    In theory, someone could volunteer to take over EvilSeph's position, and then issue a counter claim.
     
  4. Offline

    timtower Moderator Moderator

    @Shaggy67 Good luck with that. Let me know how it worked out.
     
  5. Offline

    rcade

    This is true, to a degree. Big copyright holders like movie studios and TV networks got the law written this way so that potentially infringing content had to be taken down immediately and *then* a process could take place on whether it was a violation. But a DMCA takedown is not proof of anything. It's just a claim.

    A DMCA takedown does not expire.

    But the recipient of a DMCA takedown can file a DMCA counter-notice at any time that means (in effect) "I am the copyright holder and I affirm that the material in question was legal for me to distribute."

    If that happens, the filer of the DMCA takedown has 21 days to file a lawsuit. If not, the material goes back online.

    So if Mojang/Microsoft ever decided to file a DMCA counter notice to Wolvereness, he'd have 21 days to sue the company or Bukkit would be back online here.
     
  6. Offline

    pookeythekid

    @rcade Quick question which I'm not sure I've seen clearly answered in my readings: Does Mojang(/Microsoft) have a limited amount of time to file a counter-notice, or can they do it at any time?
     
  7. Offline

    Eepmageep

    Can counter anytime, as the DMCA will continue until countered or pulled by the claimer.
    Dig Mil Copyright Act was created to strengthen US copyright system, as the internet held an entirely new way to communicate information and circumvent laws. The idea, as mentioned by comments above, was to allow immediate takedowns and then a suit deciding validity or not.
     
  8. Offline

    Experminator

    Probably i'm so dumb... But i send a counter claim to Wolvereness.
     
  9. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Experminator Really? You're willing to risk jail time if you're wrong and CraftBukkit does contain Non-GPL code? Alright, good luck :)
     
  10. Offline

    Experminator

    @AdamQpzm I have read all information about DMCA claims and counter-notices.
    I will only risk a compensation to DMCA and/or Wesley Wolfe.
     
  11. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Experminator To file a counter-notice, you have to swear under penalty of perjury that you believe Wolvereness' claim is invalid. So if you do that and it turns out to be valid, then you'll have to pay whatever the penalty of perjury is. I'm told in the US it can include jail time.

    So, really, is it worth the risk? Bare in mind that Mojang "want to resolve this issue", and they've not filed a counter-notice. What does that say about the chances of it actually being invalid?
     
  12. Offline

    rcade

    You couldn't file a counter claim now, since he didn't file a takedown against you.

    But if you extended Bukkit and CraftBukkit and distributed your version, and Wolvereness filed a DMCA takedown against you, you could file a counterclaim. If he didn't sue within 21 days, you could put your files back up.
     
  13. Offline

    Experminator

    @rcade That's smart! But how can i take a DMCA takedown from Wesley Wolfe? He does not search on the internet for they files.. I think.

    @AdamQpzm I don't care about jail-time.

    EDIT by Timtower: merged posts
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2014
  14. Offline

    rcade

    That's not how it works.

    The perjury issue only involves whether you have the right to call yourself a copyright owner or not. If a person extended Bukkit and CraftBukkit, that person would have the right to claim copyright. The person wouldn't be found guilty of perjury if a court later found that there was a licensing problem.

    This is a licensing dispute, not an ownership dispute. No court is going to harshly punish an open source coder for a non-profit project who disagreed about a licensing term. The court would just determine how the license is properly interpreted and stop one party or the other from their activities.
     
  15. Offline

    Experminator

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2016
  16. Offline

    rcade

    He's still hanging out here and on Twitter, so he'd likely find out about people doing new forks of Bukkit and CraftBukkit. He said on Twitter he was going to send a new takedown to Spigot, but I don't know if it happened.
     
  17. Offline

    Experminator

    @rcade What about with Bukkit.jar? Since Bukkit built on NMS?
     
  18. Offline

    rcade

    My personal belief as a non-lawyer is that he would lose in court, if he could even afford to pursue a lawsuit. He knew that net.minecraft.server code was in CraftBukkit when he began contributing and he made 63 commits to that code during the 30 months he worked on the project. It does not seem like an act of good faith to claim that your own code is an infringement of your copyright.

    To me, the only party that could win a lawsuit over the net.minecraft.server code being in CraftBukkit is Mojang. But it owns Bukkit, so it isn't going to be suing itself.

    But lawsuits are expensive and unpredictable. They're best to avoid if you can for that reason.
     
  19. Offline

    Hoolean Retired Staff

    I'd just like to remind everyone in this thread that you're discussing how to intentionally violate someone's copyright. If you were taken to court, there would be permanently available evidence on the internet of you scheming on how to intentionally commit crime, evidence alone that you were intentionally and knowingly attempting to partake in actions that violate the law.

    Not only this, you seem to view what is happening as a deal; it is not as simple as you go to jail for a bit and CraftBukkit is "saved". What happens is, you commit a crime, face the consequences of your actions and have a permanent criminal record if successfully prosecuted (which would seem likely with you posting how you are knowingly and intentionally planning on breaking the law) and then the files stay down anyway.

    I would cease these actions, as they are not going to end up well for you or anyone involved; if you have a valid legal claim, by all means, feel free to pursue it, but DCMAs and counter-notices are not magical tools for you to use without legal reason. What you are discussing does not seem sensible and is in violation of multiple laws.
     
  20. Offline

    Experminator

    @rcade I'm still not mature, so basically he can not even claim damages against me ...
     
  21. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Experminator If you're not over 18 you probably wouldn't be able to file one anyway, apparently.
     
  22. Offline

    Experminator

  23. Offline

    rcade

    If you're saying you're under 18, your parents would be liable for damages in any lawsuit you got into over Bukkit.

    You might want to run that idea by them first. :).
     
  24. Offline

    Experminator

  25. Offline

    AdamQpzm

  26. Offline

    Experminator

    I'm curious what happens when I do it.

    @AdamQpzm I can thus wasting their time?

    <Edited by bwfcwalshy: Merged posts, please use the edit button rather than double posting.>
     
  27. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Experminator At this rate, maybe you'll end up in jail :)

    This really isn't the right attitude to life.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
  28. Offline

    rcade

    That's not what we're doing at all.

    Wolverness has not proven he has a valid claim. A DMCA takedown demand is not a court ruling. It is just one party making an assertion of rights it believes it has.

    If some other party believes it can legally distribute Bukkit and CraftBukkit, it is no more wrong to do that than it was wrong for Wolvereness to take his position.

    Because Bukkit and CraftBukkit are open source, we all have rights to distribute and extend them according to the terms of those licenses. He can say other people are doing it wrong, and he can file DMCA takedowns, but until/unless the matter reaches a court it is an unproven claim.
     
  29. Offline

    Experminator

    Then now is the time. * click * Counter-notice sended.
     
  30. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    @Experminator So you've already made a fork, started distributing it, received a takedown notice, and sent a counter-notice? Wow, and I thought legal processes were slow!
     
    rcade likes this.
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