Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by johnnywoof, Nov 3, 2013.
The team doing the update does not moderate the forums.
Forum moderation is left up to the Administrators
Don't forget our moderators.
I just come along and post in these threads because I think it helps the community in general understand the Bukkit project a little more.
I saw someone ask this before, but they never really got an answer.
I remember a while ago there was a post on the homepage of bukkit saying that there would be a partnership with mojang, did that ever go through/what ever happened to it?
I've seen EvilSeph and a few other's around here lately.
Long time reader (over a year and a half) of the forum and I finally found a reason to sign up and post. What confuses me (because I am a programmer myself) is that work is still being done on 1.6.4. I can understand getting to a release, but then normally dev stops, and time is spent on the new. I understand the huge change from 1.6.4 to 1.7.2 but it is off putting when you see 1.6.4 is still having work done. I don't mean any offense, I am just pointing out something that I have not seen anyone else point out. I have been using bukkit for a long time and I am completely ok with the wait, but seeing work being done in an older version kinda makes it look like no dev is happening with the latest version.
The only CraftBukkit release since Mojang released 1.7 was related to fixes in the system that's needed to prepare people's worlds for 1.7. I can see why they'd choose to work on that.
I always update as soon as a dev build is out and my crucial plugins (Essentials + GriefPrevention) don't crash on startup. It works 99% of the time. I've only had a problem once where there was a dupe glitch with dispensers, and then I just rolled back a day and waited for the next dev build.
I am not asking for a ETA. I'm asking why nobody knows what you are currently doing on the project while it affects thousands of people. You leave thousands of fans blind and unknowing.
Do not volunteer to do something for thousands of people if you are not going to give information on what you are currently doing on it. Thats a very, very bad thing for someone volunteering.
A simple daily tweet describing what you did today would solve this. Literally 10 seconds a day could solve the 5+ threads being made every day, the thousands of people doubting and the huge impatience. Is it really that much to ask? Is it honestly to much work as a volunteer for thousands of people to actually say what you are doing to make sure these thousands of people arent let down? I think not.
the fact of the matter is there have been 2 1.6.4 recommended builds both released AFTER 1.7.2 was out. fine release one so players can get there "structures" saved not that it's THAT big of a deal it's wiser to start a brand new map with this kind of update. but whats the need for 2 recommended builds and then a 2.1 development build of 1.6.4 focus on 1.7.2 drop 1.6.4 it's old no one wants it it was bad times. chunks were loading horribly in 1.6.4 compared to 1.4.5 they kind of resolved this with 1.7.2 so lets get a move on and put the whole team full force on 1.7.2 because your wasting your time when you have two recommended builds already. which should have been out weeks before 1.7.2 was out but were not.
As a developer myself (and also someone who is very grateful for the hard work that the dev team put into the project) I can understand how challenging it must be to work on a project with this much exposure with everybody clammering for information.
Having said that though, whenever I personally am given a project to work on at my place of work I have a good idea of the scale of it and whether the dev time is going to be hours, days, weeks or months and I am expected to keep my work colleagues informed and manage their expectations.
It seems to me that instead of doing that, the stance that has been adopted is to release no information at all from the off, which while it may make it easier for the dev team, it is incredibly frustrating for server owners who need to field questions from their members and I'm sorry to say this, but if at work I was to tell my reporting line "your project will be ready when it's ready so stop asking me questions or I'll censor any further dialogue" I'd be shortly unemployed.
Like I said, I am very grateful for the voluntary work being done but I think that you could have made some announcement at the start to say "This is probably going to take weeks" instead of leaving everyone guessing and checking back on these forums every day. Hopefully after this update comes out you'll look at your policies again and come to a compromise as there must be some middle ground to be found.
I don't think it is a waste of time, besides this update will take weeks or even months, likely. So i don't call a couple of days spent on fixes a waste. The development build for R2.1 more like automatically added, while the obfuscation of snapshots and even big parts of the original code can differ too much to allow starting work on it, except maybe for estimating what a future API could look like.
ROFL. Entitled much? They're not "volunteering". They're writing Bukkit because they love doing so. Bukkit is not a service to the likes of you or me. Are you a programmer? I program because I enjoy sitting in a dark room self-inflicting pain, migraines, back problems, and hair loss. I don't know any of the Bukkit guys but I bet you $5 they do it vastly for their own pleasure.
Unless you want this:
actually that I'm pretty sure is exactly what they are referring to which isn't to much to ask for at least at the end of the "shift" they could give us a recap of what was accomplished if anything at the day kinda of like how git hub does but in there own words.
They used to post spreadsheets on Google Dics during updates, with things that need to be done, marking off what is already done, and some nice progress percentages. I can't say I don't miss those, but seeing how Jebby changed a shitload of code this time around, maybe they're still trying to figure out what to do and how to do it.
Edit: That typo is so hilarious I'm not even going to correct it.
Are you saying they are being forced? They are doing it as volunteers, they are doing something they enjoy as volunteers. No one is forcing them. And what the hell are you on about maniac? I am not interested in any way about what you like doing to yourself in a dark room.
I'll bet you thousands of dollars they are doing it for their own pleasure, yet no one is forcing them, they are volunteers.
Mostly liked due to the typo
I think a list-thing with entries like "we did X" or "we redid Y" or "we did nothing and have no clue what these 5000 lines of code are doing" would be pretty fancy, not giving any eta but some kind of more detailed information than "we are working on it". Might be that listening on Twitter + IRC already gives you that, though .
A simple "Made good progress on X and Y today" would suffice. It'll make a lot of people less impatient.
If typing a sentence of less then 10 words to keep the fans happy is to much for the bukkit team. I dearly hope mojang get its mod API working ASAP. So we dont need bukkit anymore. Cause this is just ridiculus.
Not at all. Where did I mention anything about force? The hell are you saying? Read my post again.
A simple "Got a lot of work done on X and Y today" would suffice. It'll make a lot of people less impatient.
If typing 8 to 10 words a day for twitter is to much work for the bukkit team. Then I hope mojang gets its mod API working ASAP. Cause this is just ridiculus. Doing something voluntarely for a lot of people and not telling what you are doing is not the way to do a project.
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
I would like to remind the mods who keep saying "no one on bukkit works for Mojang" that we all read the big post announcement and this particular paragraph stands out...
'I am extremely pleased and proud to announce that, as of today, the Bukkit team has joined Mojang. When discussing the possibility of a modding API publicly, Mojang was concerned that they would be unable to provide the community with a suitable and powerful enough solution and we honestly feel that our experience building Bukkit will help them do so. Thanks to our work with Bukkit, we have a years worth of experience, failures and lessons to help us develop a proper modding API and intend to do whatever it takes to produce one that satisfies the needs of the community. Now that we have an opportunity to design the official Minecraft API, we intend to make it a suitable replacement for Bukkit, if not a significantly better one, while bukkit.org will remain a community for modders for the foreseeable future.'
So, what happened? How come we don't see a better timing integration between release and bukkit?
How come we are left more in the dark now then we were, even in beta builds?
I would also like to emphasize this line ---> ...and intend to do whatever it takes to produce one that satisfies the needs of the community.
I have to agree that the silence during larger updates is a bit interesting. Many of us who know to be patient and wait and not hound the team for an update are still left for days without so much as a tidbit of info on the official end of things. Why, when I click 'latest news', is not ONE single daily update from ANY bukkit team member?
It would appear as if "needs of the community" would currently be having some idea of how the progress is going.
Still saying big thanks to everyone and your work but it would be nice if we were at least somewhat privy to the work being done for our own Communities and curiosity.
And this, my little pixelated pumpkins, is the bottom line. Thanks for your honesty and keep up the good work.
But why can't we just get told what's happened so far? For example:
Hey Bukkit community!!! We successfully added all 15 variations of glass today, and got one biome added.
Little stuff like that, that would just be great to have, and that's very possible to do. Normally I've seen during updates a lot of activity from mods/admins with news and such stating how far along they are. I don't know why things have changed with 1.7.2
I remember that same thing.
Come on guy's let them do there job, and get bukkit 1.7.2 working. As a Server owner I know how frustrating it is to wait until even a Dev. Build comes out. I look about 3 or 5 time's a day. Well enough with complaining, good things take, the time they take. And at last we bukkit user can say Wow we have to 95% bug free game. And Minecraft/Bukkit needs bugs for the fun to find them and to better the quality that is given On the Bukkit Team and Plug-in Dev. Great Job so long, keep it up. And many Thanks form me and my team for making Minecraft so awesome.
And even if you can not make a very rough ETA even weeks after the patch is released I'm doubting if there is anyone in the bukkit team whos got a proper helicopter view of whats needs to be done. If you indeed dont have this, this is also the cause of not being able to show what you are doing.
You keep saying that its released when its released, that is completely clear, its just about this little word "when". If absolutely none of the coders/developers of bukkit have ANY idea of how much still has to happen. Then im getting worried about the state of the bukkit developer group. The longer you continue this silence the more people will start taking false (?) assumptions about the competence of the developers.
If mojang would add some sort of anti griefing structure into vanilla minecraft then updates would be less stressful. As a server owner my biggest concern is the loss of griefing tools that bukkit and plugins provide. I could continue to run my server without any of the other fun plugins until bukkit updates. When it comes down to it, we have no choice but to wait.
This and a chat filter, we can edit a txt file for, would be extremely awesome.
Neither of those things would actually speed up the development of Bukkit.
Hey! We're just killing time here mister!
Your statement is true to a point, however, if the builds at some point included those 2 features, the wait time for the updates wouldn't be as stressful for those of us who like to offer their community the newest minecraft.
I know that we take the risks and whatnot, upon ourselves by doing so, yet I agree that having those 2 functions in Vanilla would make it slightly easier on the Bukkit team AS they worked. Why? Because so many of us would be less inclined to yap on here and poke and prod the Bukkit folks and be more inclined to play or manage the members in our own servers. All around, sure, maybe not feasible, but still a fun option to consider.
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