Theory why bukkit takes so long to update to 1.7.2

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by johnnywoof, Nov 3, 2013.

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Do you agree with this?

  1. Yes I do!

    33.0%
  2. Maybe......

    27.8%
  3. Not at all!

    39.2%
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  1. Offline

    johnnywoof

    -removed-
     
    Kasman9300 and Jozeth like this.
  2. Offline

    Compulsivecraft

    Or, you know. They take a while to make sure the jillions of servers running bukkit get a super clean awesome release of 1.7.

    Lots of testing.
    Lots of work.
    Lots of blocks.
     
    Dr_Bunsen and akirby80 like this.
  3. Offline

    Maximvdw

    My only fear with 1.7.2 is that when a dev comes out 'every' server will update to a DEVELOPMENT Build.
    So I really hope that they tested it well enough before they release
     
  4. Offline

    asofold

    A lot changed internally (as by hearsay), so it will not be the same as "just" updating a lot of blocks.

    And i don't think server owners should rely on the quality of development builds being the same as with recommended builds. There can't possibly be "enough testing" from side of the Bukkit team after the changes they have to cope with (wild guess), so i suggest server owners be VERY patient with their production servers this time and possibly the following times as well.
     
  5. Offline

    Me4502

    I

    It'd be the last one. Hundreds of thousands of lines of code were changed, this means it'll take a very long time for bukkit to update. Bukkit doesn't use MCP, so the first reason is invalid simply due to that. The second one, whilst it is partially valid, not all bukkit developers were at Minecon and therefore would have still been working on it.
     
  6. Offline

    batbat

    The bukkit team has explained numerous times exactly why it takes so long (really not that long all things considered) to release updates. You don't need to post theories.
     
  7. Offline

    PunJedi

    Having been a server owner for almost 3 years and watching the growth of the bukkit team and community, it still amazes me that there is so much chaos during an update. It's simple when you consider the amount of code that has to be cleaned up and tested for each and every update. Follow these simple steps...

    1. Understand that Bukkit team has no obligation to anyone to put anything out before they feel it​
    is ready, let alone at all if you think about it.​
    2. Don't run a server if you can't handle the time and dedication it may take to manage a community on either​
    older builds or Vanilla style snapshot/updates​
    3. Patience is a virtue. We all know it WILL be released and they WILL continue to work their butts off for us,​
    and we can be confident that we will be fully informed of such when it happens.​
    If you actually read that, Thanks :)
    And a huge thank you to all the work by all the community of Bukkit/Forums etc..​
     
  8. Offline

    Zankla

    Bukkit does an amazing job ... when it is ready they will release it. It shouldn't matter what the reason is, we need to be grateful for all the time they put in for something we do not pay for and enjoy.

    THANK YOU ALL for the time and effort and fantastic job
     
  9. Offline

    Toxic__Waste

    The problem I have is that this time around it is taking forever and i have alot of my members saying how they are bored of 1.7 already playing in single player.
    so by the time a release is out the excitement is all ready over..might as well just wait for 1.8.
    1.7 is a complete failure..for players and server owners
    we were not able to enjoy this release with bukkit and the plugins and that really sucked..
    and also by the time a release is out we will still have to wait for plugins to be updated and fixed..so you can spin it all you want..this is the biggest minecraft/bukkit failure to players and owners..
     
  10. Offline

    lycano

    Toxic__Waste bukkit is not minecraft so there will be always a gap between "minecraft (mojang)" and "bukkit" release. Did you started playing minecraft yesturday?

    Saying 1.7 is a complete failure however is a punch in every developers face who is working hard on the release or will update their plugins to the next beta/dev release.
     
    russjr08, WillMoff and PunJedi like this.
  11. Offline

    Toxic__Waste

    a gap yes but it never took this long and as a failure thats not a slap in the face of the devs working on the update (if they are working hard) and as far as plugin devs they are sitting on the sidelines as well waiting and getting frustrated..I have talked to alot of them and they still dont know what to expect from this release and it has been 10 days..like i said spin it the way you want ik you need to stand by and protect bukkit..but the fact of the matter is players get bored easily and there bored of 1.7 already and it has not even been played yet...go figure kids get bored
     
    Techcable likes this.
  12. Offline

    Goblom

    Not at all correct. MCP is Minecraft Coder Pack, it is the main source for mods that use Forge Mod Loader and for Forge Servers. Bukkit is NOT a Forge Server.

    Yes, the entirety of minecraft got a protocol update but that is not everything that has changed. True that is a huge factor and will cause the update to take longer, but remember, Mojang also introduced many new biomes and according to Dinnerbone over 225K lines of code were changed this not including the biome changes.


    With everyone being angry at the Bukkit Team for not updating "fast enough" for them, don't blame bukkit for being slow, blame Mojang for adding many new things to the game :p

    The Bukkit update will come in due time and quite frankly i would be surprised if an update comes out within the next 2 weeks.
     
  13. Offline

    lycano

    Toxic__Waste Im sorry but i can't follow your thought process.
     
    Scois0n likes this.
  14. Offline

    gabessdsp

    I wish Mojang tried to work with Bukkit like they did before. When Mojang did that Bukkit was able to update so much faster, I feel that would've been a great idea for this.
     
  15. Offline

    Toxic__Waste

    @Goblem
    That i also think is the problem the best devs for bukkit work for mojang now..
     
    Techcable likes this.
  16. Offline

    Tanite


    On the upside, with so many testing the dev version, it will get polished quite quickly :)
     
  17. Offline

    Robolord

    Could anyone give me a explanation of this? How come that people that do something as volunteers which affects thousands of other people not talk about what they are doing or how far they are with doing it? Isnt that a bit weird? Thats like volunteering for, lets say, organising a festival for thousands of people and telling to no one, not even the artists or security people when the festival is and how its all going to work. You create a lot of unrest, distrust and false assumptions.

    Doesnt this seem a bit weird?
     
    The LA Baker and jonkilaz like this.
  18. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    No one currently working on Bukkit is employed by Mojang. Its unfortunate you feel our project is a failure due to the extraordinary amount of work we have to do every update and not meeting your demands, but there is not much else we can do besides continue to work toward getting a release out.

    Robolord
    There is no way to generate even something close to an ETA, so instead of pulling numbers out of thin air and lying to people, we tell them the truth - we have no ETA. Providing an ETA would foster more unrest, distrust and false assumptions than just telling the truth.

    We are working on 1.7.2, but cannot provide any estimated time until a release.
     
  19. Offline

    asofold

    Throughout the more or less recent past, a development build usually had been available within hours or very few days anyway. Given the obfuscated code to deal with while not knowing what exactly changed, giving an eta would have been very difficult for those cases, because "one day off" could be like "100% off" - the nature of obfuscation + other peoples code could cause hours as well as days of difficulties for non-obvious cases.

    This time it might just be too much to overview within short time, assuming the information is right that the magnitude of the changes is like 100-thousands of lines. Still i think that some status update would be cool, not in terms of days but probably stating about rough stages. My guess is that no matter how fast a development build is produced, it could easily have severe bugs for weeks and months, but that is just based on very little information (obfuscated code, network rewrite, hundred thousands of lines changed in total). So in my opinion even knowing about "the first dev build eta" does not help the server owner too much. Plugin developers would of course fancy having the API in place early, but that too needs a lot of code review, decisions, and many changes (block naming changes).
     
  20. Offline

    wafwot

    Since for some reason unbeknownst to the gods this thread was not locked I'll reply.

    TnT The statement you said "We are working on 1.7.2, but cannot provide any estimated time until a release." posted on the front page would do wonders. Yes, you are volunteers and yes you (sometimes overly) control this open source project. But you are not the almighty that I go and pray to on Sundays, you can speak to the masses and let them know you are real.

    Next to everyone else. Stop acting like spoiled little brats. Just because the previous few releases came out quickly, one within a day, sure as hell doesn't mean they all do. This is a big change, to obfusticated code. Has anyone who is complaining looked at this code verses 1.6.4? Didn't think so.
     
    Techcable likes this.
  21. Offline

    s32ialx

    I personally think if this is the case bukkit needs to start tearing apart snapshots if these much changes are coming with them instead of waiting for the release at least they would have some what of a headstart even if the code changes again it's highly unlikely that it would have changed THAT much between snapshots it's more likely a drastic change like from 1.6.4 to 1.7 but when your tearing apart lets just use future builds.... 14w43a because the new upcoming 1.8 is a Huge 500k lines change even if code changed from 14w43a to 14w52b or even to again lets say 1.8.2 it wouldn't be another 500k of lines only a couple hundred here and there if that. they wouldn't rewrite that much code that often so really tearing open those snapshots would help bukkit get to release a beta almost on par with the release of the minecraft client/server also I've seen bukkit fix bugs that mojang didn't even get to right away so it's not like tearing apart those snapshots would be all for loss they could fix bugs while they were at it.

    also when did the mojang/bukkit "partnership" end?
     
    jonkilaz likes this.
  22. Offline

    Admyral

    I don't know which one of the forum posts suggested this (and I don't mean to take credit for this GREAT idea), but I think it bears repeating here: Instead of freaking out about the awesome Bukkit team working their butts off to get out the next update, I posed the question to all of my players and they voted. They agreed to take the "real" server world offline for a while and run in a pure vanilla 1.7 "playground". This way they can play with the new features, but still have the fun of multiplayer with the same familiar people. When Bukkit updates, then we bring the "real" world back online and life goes on right where it left off and the playground world goes away (In the past, I have been known to be a nice admin and copy particularly cool structures into the main world). We have done this with every major Minecraft release since the server has been running, and my players all love it.
     
    NathanWolf likes this.
  23. Offline

    Techcable

    maybe the people at mojang should actually coordinate with the bukkit developers? maybe not release a new version until bukkit is ready. maybe they could coordinate with major mod developers too. considering the fact that minecraft wouldn't be a tenth as popular without bukkit or forge mods. Maybe mojang should fufill their supposed "partnership" with the bukkit team.

    <edit: Discussion about protocol hacks removed>

    Edit: plus they have to deobfuscate the code which is very hard (Tried it myself)
     
  24. Offline

    Nemesis213

    Seems to me (and granted I'm wrong lots if not most of the time xD) that simply going open source would be beneficial to all... It's not like hacked clients and offline mode servers aren't available almost the same day as an update anyways... I know several ppl (myself included) that originally had hacked clients and enjoyed the game enough we paid for it. Not because we needed to, but because enjoyed it enough we felt obligated to support it... Open source wouldn't magically update bukkit, but certainly would help move part of the process along :/
     
  25. Offline

    milesmcc

    .-.

    Bukkit already is open source.
     
  26. Offline

    Nemesis213

    lol.... Read it a little closer. I was referring to minecraft. Not bukkit :p ...can't say I've ever heard of a 'hacked bukkit client' lol ;)
     
  27. Offline

    Compressions

    Minecon booths have stated that this is by far the hardest update to make an MCP build for, and that it destroys 1.3's complexity. Developers must rewrite A LOT of obfuscated, new code to create a build that works perfectly with 1.7's vast features. Be patient everyone; the update will be here when it is ready.
     
  28. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    I just want to clarify, we have no affiliation with MCP, nor do we rely on the work done by them.
     
  29. Offline

    Compressions

    TnT Sorry, I was being a bit vague there. What I meant is that the amount of time to take on this task may be relatively mutual between MCP and Bukkit.
     
  30. Offline

    MrSparkzz

    johnnywoof
    I think the reason that the Bukkit Team is taking so long is not because they have hundreds of thousands of code to change/rearrange. It's because they keep having to come to the forums and remove/lock threads about the 1.7.2 update.
     
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