The Status of Bukkit

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Mar 31, 2012.

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    Our Release System
    The most common complaints we've gotten about our new release system is that getting a Recommended Build out is taking considerably longer than before. The reason we switched to a new release system is because the amount of work that we have to do to get a Recommended Build out meant that there was a huge delay before servers could update and this was unacceptable. We felt that you should be able to choose if you wanted to take a risk and run an update immediately or shortly after Mojang released it or to wait for us to certify and release a Recommended Build.

    For the most part, our new Beta releases are what our old Recommended Builds were. If you can't wait for us to go through the extensive testing process we've designed to certify a Recommended Build, then you should be using the Betas. We know that many of you want us to promote a Recommended Build shortly after a Minecraft update is made available, but expecting as such is unrealistic. It is simply not possible for us to go through the 190+ tests, design and develop new features and fix all the bugs within a week, let alone a few hours or days. If we were to promote a Recommended Build shortly after an update came out, there is no way we could seriously consider it "recommended" and it would only prove to be misleading to the Server Admins out there that rely on our Recommended Builds system to determine if a build is stable enough to be run on their production servers without the risk of their world being corrupted or something.

    As a result, we designed and switched over to a new system that offers Development builds to Server Admins that love being on the edge, Beta builds for Server Admins that simply want something that is stable enough for production and Recommended Builds for those who want to be completely assured that we've addressed any major issues that have come up since the Minecraft update was released.

    We feel that this system offers us the freedom to cater to the many different types of Server Admins we have in our community and will continue to follow this release model well into the future.

    The Future of Bukkit
    Over the past few months we've been working closely with the community as part of the Bukkit Bleeding system on the development of Bukkit. The speed and quality of the code within the project has been significantly improved by the skilled, dedicated and passionate individuals of the Bukkit Bleeding team and many of the features in Bukkit today would not be there if it were not for them. This group of developers were integral in allowing us to properly utilise and realise the potential of the new dev -> beta -> RB release system we recently switched to, as well as helping us get builds out faster without having to sacrifice quality or stability.

    That being said, it only makes sense that we bring in some of the contributors from Bukkit Bleeding into the Bukkit Team itself to help us maintain the project in our absence as we intend to focus on designing, developing and releasing a high quality modding API for Minecraft itself. Without further ado, I'm really happy and honoured to announce that, effective immediately, feildmaster and Wolvereness are now a part of the Bukkit Team. Please join me in welcoming them to the team, with the amount of work they've been putting into the project behind the scenes, they more than deserve it.

    We hope that the changes we've made and continue to make will be for the best for the community and the project and thank you for your continued support. Along with the new additions to our team, we're hoping to have a Recommended Build ready for Minecraft 1.2.5 right as Mojang releases it to the public. Thanks to Mojang releasing a preview build for modders to work with ahead of time and this update primarily being a bug fix release, we should be able to have a compatible, stable build available at the same time the Minecraft update is pushed out to the public.
    Morlanius, tyzoid, FxDeath and 22 others like this.
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    Oh, my banner. Someone else made it for me, he's all mine >:D
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    Corrected my mistake, damn its hard to keep track of these things now with the team being able to edit both sides client and vanilla, anyway I doupt I would get a hold of JEB or NOTCH, last time I got notch on twitter, confronted him about the map.txt and how removing it gained FPS lol, and he denied it saying it was not storing data or doing anything but it was as there was data in there dunno what for but it regenerated new data if u removed the data in it.

    Anyway long story short he blocked me on twitter for breaking his ego I guess and truth be told the next client update this little hack did not work anymore to increase FPS.

    But that is not important to the subject of whats going on here.

    Unblocked now wowzers.
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    ledhead900 It was a lazy decision to block redstone torches from clearing the sign when editing it. But this was a SERVER sided issue. I honestly don't get why it was done at the client?
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    Wolvereness Bukkit Team Member

    Breaking was unintentional, and one of the reasons it was reverted.
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    I honestly don't get why we don't already have an official event to help us with that sort of thing to begin with, and yes it is quite lazy. All I know is I am deeply upset that we cannot do this anymore that function alone has made so much work with updating signs for what ever reason such a simple task but now, now I have to smash it all to bits and re type every line.

    But I think we should probably stay more on topic from here on out I don't want to derail the thread we have clarified our points that we were asked about, your certainly more knowledge able about the event end and then me I only know what I need know to understand what the plugin is basically doing not keep track of events been and gone.

    I did point out though that even tho we have this new site to get Bukkit from we need a big in your face image just like the RB one to say HELLO get your BETA HERE. I know for a fact that many people have no idea there even is a beta system mainly due to the fact the text on the dl bukkit page that says "alternative version available" is so small I would not blame them at all if they completely did not see it.

    If they are going to do something about that they might as well add the download page to the top of the forums as well probably replace the "Get Craftbukkit" one and merge that into the download page. Though that is another story for another day for me to say, I have already gave this feedback right here right now :).

    Maybe so, but doupt this is the first time this type of in consistency which I was referring to has happened and I think there may be other times before the BETA system that this was regular occurrence. I don't want to continue talking about this though. I will just say this, beta should not have had the issue simple as that any amount of testing would show that it was broken and had missing tie in events.

    I have to agree with burger on this one though, Its a pain even for an admin as we need to check if updates are out that fix the little things that get broken esp if plugins start carrying on about version changes and disable themselves due to them. The BETA is a good thing but do we need some stability so that we are not constantly checking for new versions of a plugin though and I also need to agree as the letting us know part hits the nail on the head of what I was getting at.

    I know its not easy to tell us everything all the time were are not asking for that but a simple heads up on something they surely would see coming would be nice.

    On that note Minecraft 1.2.5 is due out in about a day or two zz here we go again.
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    To be honest, if only these things were met I'd be grateful:

    No quick-minded decisions. All errors so far could have been easily prevented if discussed first:
    • The chunk unload event spam
    • The event declaration breakage (there was also the 'DamageEvent' change)
    • All of the native coding changes. (change your existing methods, deobfuscate and look at the diff.)
    A proper build management:
    • I want a build to stay the RB for over two weeks
    • No 5-day interval to update
    • A good overview of the downloads, a HUGE button to download the currently recommended build
    • No failing builds should be downloadable. No one likes world corruption. (yes, the failing convert function I reported caused me to lose a complete world... :( )
    Discussions regarding every build:
    • Members (guests?) being able to make comments on builds. What is good? What is bad? Which bugs exist? Live issue tracker for every build, showing a list of known bugs?
    • A testing team and a way to join one. I don't see one, do you?
    The status of Bukkit: it was having a bad cold and is now having a fever with a lot of headaches. It tries to work while being ill, making it far worse. Bukkit should really take a good nap to get better and get things sorted out.
    Don Redhorse and TopGear93 like this.
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    Two month would be the best ! For me it should be 6 month...
    I didn't understand how Jeb can publish buggy version... And why he will update so often...
    He just need to take his time, check his version with beta release 1 month before publishing the "good" version.
    And when the "good" version is published, going for new 6 month of stabiliy...
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    To be honest, even though I also got caught out by the custom event constructor removal, most of the things you bring up are only valid 1) if you code towards CB instead of Bukkit and 2) if you treat plugin users who run non-RB versions as if they were using RBs.

    I wouldn't call that the "normal" plugin use case. I haven't had to change a single line of code in Courier from 1.1-R7 to 1.2.4-R1.0.
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    troed yup you are right, but there are countless plugins that had to be updated nevertheless. But you are forgetting one thing:
    Most server admins on here are underage. They require your plugin to support the latest build, or want a download for the CraftBukkit server build they are using.

    A few quotes most of you will be familiar with:
    Even if it is still fully compatible, I have to re-download CraftBukkit (a 10 mb file, takes a while), do a complete compatibility check both in Eclipse and in-game, possibly facing countless bugs that arose. And yes, plugins like SignLink hardly require updating right now, same for MyWorlds, and I am glad for that. But I still need to update the title or upload a new version for new builds.

    Don't forget I am now a developer for Spout Vanilla too, and I will mostly be developing in that area these days. Don't really feel like spending a full day replying to everyone saying it is compatible or is not...neither can I look into the future to predict what build will be supported.
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    Congratulations feildmaster on your new status with Bukkit I am a fan of your ControlORBle mod you have done a great job with that, it was the reason I started using a Bukkit server in the first place :) and you always keep it up to date which is also very handy.

    I didn't put any reference in my earlier post as to what comments in I liked with regards to client side issues, they are lost in there so I will list these: Post #162 by PunJedi , post #631 by me and the response, post#633 by palisade and finally post#652 by PunJedi also.

    I also had another thought about how far back a client should be able to connect if it could connect to server versions that were mainstream in the last 3 months that would effectively mean coders have 3 months to update their code possibly more because really old server would loose support only when a new client is available.

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    No. Even after the official API is out (which they are developing from scratch), Bukkit will continue to exist as a separate project until they are confident that the functionality of the official API has succeeded what Craftbukkit already offers.
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    lets hope you can push out 1.2.5's please do it for us, we appreciate your work, and its amazing how you do it
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    maybe some people will read this and understand that its not possible to release within minutes of update
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    Actually, that's not true.... Since much of the bukkit team now works at Mojang, they could delay the actual update for the client until after server admins have a recommended bukkit server, if they wanted to.

    But, they don't want to. So, we'll get it after. I don't think this makes a lot of sense, because in any game you should always allow the server admins to get a hold of the update before players get theirs. Otherwise, players are going to be befuddled when they can't get onto their favorite servers. Also, it takes time for server admins to get all their plugins to work again, so releasing the bukkit recommended server late makes everything even later. Some servers will probably take 2 - 3 days to update as a result, because many of us have jobs / lives beyond Minecraft. Getting us the recommended server say a day or two before actual release for example would give us a chance to test all the plugins we like to have on the server. Some will fail, some won't, but at least we can get that sorted out before users attempt to come in.

    For people who say this doesn't matter, the 1.2.3 and 1.2.4 updates have more or less killed my server. I had 10 - 20 people on my server and now I have 0. About 1 or 2 still show up from time to time, but it's pretty lonely on my server. Which is sad because we had built some pretty great things. I have a lot of these people on my skype and I ask them to come back on but they've moved on to other things like second life, or mass effect 3, etc. I've said it before, I think this is eroding the community as a whole. Maybe the big servers aren't seeing the effect yet, but the rest of us are.

    This is probably one of the few things I'd change about their new process if I could. Other than that, I welcome the pre-release that allows bukkit and plugin developers a chance to test 1.2.5 early. I was able to test my own plugin against 1.2.5 pre-release and it'll be ready for when 1.2.5 officially comes out, for example. So, the new process *is* working.

    Actually, in an ideal world server admins would have a recommended server build several days in advance, maybe 4 - 5 days. I know this sounds crazy but, they need the time to test changes and make sure it will be safe for players. Also, things like world corruption can happen, and that is a roadblock to getting a server up again. So, while their players are still playing on the previous server, they can be testing out the new one on a different port.
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    That's a shame. It just seems counterintuitive to me to do that. I thought they joined Mojang just so they wouldn't have to redevelop it from scratch. I'm tempted to just quit bukkit altogether and wait until there's just one version. I only have a handful of users on my server and this last series of updates has really ran their patience thin. At least on a vanilla server I'll be up to date for them, but no plugins. Either that or run an outdated server that only half the plugins I would like to have will run on.
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    im not sure what your saying......

    i think you might have misread me. i was saying that its NOT possible to release the new bukkit within minutes of the minecraft update
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    Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

    (My QuakeWorld server is also pretty empty)
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    I think I did understand you. You're saying that there is no way the Bukkit team can release a new Bukkit server mere minutes after the official Minecraft patch goes out to clients.

    I'm saying you are wrong, several members of the Bukkit team are now employees at Mojang. They could simply release the recommended Bukkit server days before the client patch if they delay the release of the client patch. So, it is possible. The timing is up to them.

    They're choosing to release the client patch first and then whenever Bukkit is ready, it's ready. I don't think they should be doing that, is my point.

    Unfortunately, since they GPL'd the bukkit code, they can't use anything from it while at Mojang legally.

    This is why they're implementing a Minecraft API from scratch.

    Having said that, if they could get all copyright holders for the bukkit code to agree to release the code under an alternative license such as BSD or MIT, then Mojang could use the code without any problems.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2016
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    You assume the bukkit guys, the new guys, have control over when an update is released. When that's completely based upon Jeb_, the lead. Just like how Bukkit releases are based on when EvilSeph approves them after numerous testing.
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    Good point.

    It's still a good idea, though.
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