The Old Permissions is Dead - Switch to PEX (How-to)

Discussion in 'WIP and Development Status' started by PermissionsTeam, Aug 22, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    Master_Rudik

    Might as well just keep going with what you're doing. Some things may be better left dead, but who cares? I may not personally switch to Permissions 4 after already upgrading to PermissionsBukkit, but people who loved what died will continue to use it as long as they can, and maybe new people will hop on who wish to feel a bit nostalgic.

    Take hMod as your example. Despite having been riddled with ignored bugs and entirely dropped by hey0, it was continued for what seemed like forever by Meaglin, and now sits quietly as Canary Mod over at canarymod.net.

    Resurrection, ftw.
     
    dark_hunter likes this.
  2. Some people actually want what we're making. We aren't stealing anything, and we've already been forced to meet demands we don't lawfully need to.

    Unless the entire team of bukkit developers themselves tell us we cannot create this plugin, we will continue to make our own plugin that allows for ALL plugins that supported permissions to work with the same features and ease-of-use as Permissions 3 did for many.

    Really, we'll have SuperPerms support as well, so I don't understand why we must be forced into shutting down.

    I urge all developers and server owners on our side of the issue to speak up: There are simply too many problems with SuperPerms in its current state for us NOT to try and continue with the old method.

    We only mean to keep this alive as long as we aren't satisfied with bukkit permissions.
     
  3. Offline

    Rigby90

    In that case you should speak out as well and explain what exactly is wrong with Bukkit Permissions and you never know things may turn out for the better. However if it's anything like 'it lacks groups' or 'lacks the ability to set a suffix' then that is not a Bukkit Permissions related problem.
     
  4. The tip of the iceberg before I sign off:
    • SuperPerms lacks the '*' nodes, which make server permissions files MUCH cleaner and easier to use.
    • As you stated groups and prefix/suffix control is not considered part of Permissions.
    • It IS a change from Permissions, which was deathly simple to most.
    We plan on solving these problems with our plugin by making multiple groups and worlds easy to configure, the '*' node still functional, and by storing various group settings such as prefix/suffix/build/anything (as used with iChat custom variables in P2/3).

    We will work hard to get these working with a SuperPerms bridge before even releasing it, so plugin developers could safely switch over to bukkit permissions without requiring server owners to switch permissions plugins.

    Simply put, we want to let people using Permissions 3 to be able to copy/paste their config files into this plugins folder, and have it work just as it did before for them.
     
  5. Offline

    SwearWord

    @HmmmQuestionMark
    You're right. I'm sorry. I want to go back to deprecated permissions that no future plugins will support. I hate how PermissionsBukkit, bPerms, and PEX just work. I'd rather have everyone use a plugin that won't work for them and then enjoy explaining to them why as they storm irc.
     
  6. This isn't a replacement for SuperPerms! We have stated multiple times that we plan on adding SuperPerms to support new plugins while at the same time allowing the current configuration of many servers to remain.

    There is no more sense it trying to explain this to you, most people at least understand what we are trying to do. You obviously just want to argue with us. Go ahead and make your plugins and we'll make ours. We don't need to talk to each other.
     
  7. Offline

    Master_Rudik

    Dubious, indeed. May fair winds meet your sails, wary traveler.
     
  8. Offline

    SwearWord

    @HmmmQuestionMark
    Replacement for SuperPerms what? Do you even know what they are. Super perms are built into bukkit. By creating a plugin that has permissions but does not load them into super perms is the definition of replacement for SuperPerms.

    SuperPerms is NOT A PLUGIN.
     
    mooman219 likes this.
  9. Offline

    undeadmach1ne

    ok i am totally neutral in this argument, but it looks to me like you are not even reading what they are saying.

    seriously. to me it looks like you are making shit up in your head and then yelling at them about it. they are making a super perms manager which supports the features of legacy permissions, legacy permissions config files and all the other features that most users (and quite a few devs) wish that superperms (and related managers) would support. why do you think that they are making another new permissions system from scratch? at no point in this thread has anyone but you tried to imply that is what they are doing.
     
  10. Offline

    SwearWord

    @undeadmach1ne
    See PEX, bPerms, and PermissionsBukkit. See my previous posts. They weren't even going to add SuperPerms until everyone started yelling at them for it. My point is this doesn't need to exist, there are far more capable developers making far superior progress. If they really cared about meeting a need they would fork and do a pull request. We are working hard to kill off legacy permissions. This is revieving it.
     
  11. We always planned on adding SuperPerms. We didn't always have it in the first post, however, we added the notice to try and let people like you know that we planned on that.
     
  12. Offline

    Master_Rudik

    ...and what happens if this team happens to also be full of capable developers who make the next best plugin for Bukkit?

    Nothing needs to exist, if these guys want to go off and revive something that is "dead", let 'em. They've already said they're not going to use any more of the original code from Permissions, although they really shouldn't need to honor that, because if they can make something great that works using old code, more power to them.

    Let's destroy a plugin when it sucks after it's been released. For God sakes, we haven't even tested the damn thing yet.
     
  13. Offline

    SwearWord

    Why don't you come on irc #bukkit or #bukkitdev and we'll have s friendly discussion about this.

    @Master_Rudik
    Trust me, they're not. Secondly they tried to release this and it got moved here. Third I'm pretty sure their bug list includes "most plugins will say you dont have permission."
     
  14. Offline

    Cosmic Break

    when this was available to download i did test it, and out of the 50 plugins i had at the time, 48 of them worked flawlessly.

    2 didnt because they look for a specific version of permissions.

    i dont see anything wrong with this. i would like to be able to use superperms while retaining my old style config.

    i have use permissionsbukkit and it has its benefits as well, being that multiworld permissions are in one file

    i just find that perms 2/3/4 allow me to continue using plugins that i have that are no longer in development, but still work, or havent upgraded for superperms, like OKB3, which was a vital plugin on my server. it made my job alot easier.
     
  15. Offline

    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    Without Niji's blessing to use his code, there is no point in continuing with this project. The only reason why you'd want to revive Permissions is to make use of the many plugins that support(ed) it over time. However, without being able to use the original code, your reach within the community is no longer even remotely significant and this quickly becomes a pointless endeavor.

    Legacy Permissions is dying for a good reason and experienced developers within the community see the reasoning behind why everyone wants it dead. With a team of one developer that has yet to display the abilities required to take on a project this large, a lot of time will be needed to get this to the stage where anyone would even slightly consider utilising it for their plugin.

    While the way some people are going about expressing their disapproval is not the best, their hearts are in the right place. Let legacy permissions die. There are no benefits to reviving it. Superperms is better designed and better suited with little to no exceptions. The points you've brought up as to why a revival is better than Superperms are completely illogical. Permissions are permissions, not meta-data like prefixes and suffixes and, as such, a *permissions* plugin should not be involved with manipulating this type of data. It is best to leave it to a plugin specialised for this purpose instead.

    Please note, I am only speaking for myself and not Bukkit at this time.
     
  16. Offline

    Master_Rudik

    Can we all be friends now?
     
  17. Offline

    undeadmach1ne

    i have been reading this thread since the first post and i have been under the impression the whole time that they intended to make this compatible with superperms. maybe that was just wishful thinking/assumptions on my part?

    i understand the need to move on from legacy permissions into superperms. this plugin is trying to make that transition easier by allowing people to keep their old configs, and seamlessly support plugins that havnt updated to the new system yet. i can understand why people were mad about the idea that these guys were 'stealing' the old permissions code, or using it without permission from the original authors, but i dont get why anyone would be mad about a new superperms manager that has features the other ones lack. if there are other capable devs making superior progress, i guess their superperms managers will come out first and bury this one. so be it. right now though, there isnt one that supports perms 3.x config files in a drag/drop fashion...so good luck to the most talented dev who can make the transition to superperms as easy as possible for end users. again, no offense to you personally.
     
  18. Offline

    mooman219

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  19. Offline

    Celtic Minstrel

    Actually, I'm fairly sure PermissionsEx uses exactly the same config file format as Permissions... it might not support 3.x tracks (not sure), but I think it'll support everything else.
     
  20. Offline

    undeadmach1ne

    yeah i was actually looking at that last night. its not drag and drop (there is a convert /command you run). some ppl in the thread report that its great, other have trouble...prolly their fault though really...
     
  21. We are no longer developing this plugin as a team, if our developer decides to continue he will do so unilaterally.
     
  22. Offline

    jgaaar

    I believe this argument is really stupid, no matter what you say. Personally, i preferred the permissions 3x versions, and i really dont want to move to permissionsbukkit, or pex, or anything else for that matter. if you would like to help a guy learn how to code, i would gladly help code this plugin, mainly because this is a preference type of matter. the other permissions plugins are NOT this permissions plugin, which is exactly the reason i want to use this plugin instead of the other ones. This plugin is the permissions i am used to, the admins of my server are used to, and i can probably bet a lot more people are used to. this permissions is simple, and you dont need any other plugins to help run this.

    another point that comes to mind, why do people make plugins for the groups for permissions bukkit to say like [admin]etc which is, i admit lightweight, but trying to imitate the permissions system of prefixes. why try to "imitate" when you can just improve/update the plugin ? i will be using this plugin for sure, as soon as it finishes, and i will try to urge other plugins to support this too.
     
  23. Offline

    rymate1234

    So, you want to stick with outdated, unreliable and very buggy plugins because you don't want to switch to another plugin.

    You DO realize that by not switching to a SuperPerms plugin, you'll soon find that all the plugins you use will not work due to the fact they'll stop supporting permissions. There is no way around this.

    Oh, ever get the Read Timed Out message? Yeah, Permissions 3x caused that :D
     
  24. I now fully recommend PEX, it is much easier to use once you take a look at it, and it has more features in it than the plugin dev lets on.

    Help the bukkit community out by switching to PEX or PermissionsBukkit, bPermissions, or another permissions plugin. Once we get this issue out of the way we can worry about other more important things in minecraft.
     
  25. Offline

    jgaaar

    ./me sigh -_-
     
  26. Offline

    TruDan

    To be fair, The code is on GitHub. Github is open source hence anyone can take the code and use how they wish. Ok, they may need permission to use the name, Just call it something else?

    I am on the "For" side for this plugin. I don't see why someone (Not naming here) should not let people use thier code if they are never going to work on that plugin ever. Permissions has been dead for ages, And whoever is saying that all new plugins dont work with Permissions. I use Permissions 3 on my server and all my plugins work fine. :mad:

    I personally am not a lover of the new permissions system, i tried it but found it very confusing. With these permissions i find it alot easier to set up, Chat formatting is alot easier, Promoting/demoting (PermissionsPlus) It is just generally better in my case, And it still works with all plugins that i use. If you developers are going to give up on a project like this, Don't you can still make it, but you don't have to release it. I'll still use it :) If needed, i may be able to help a little, but i am working on 2 other rather large projects too so i wont be able to help that much :)
     
  27. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    Then make it easier on yourself. What exactly is "confusing"? It's very very simple.
     
  28. Offline

    TruDan

    I admit it was ages ago when i tried, Plus. I just generally prefer the setup of Permissions, i dont like any of that permission: true/false crap. Just list it or put a - infront if you dont want them to have that permission, Prefixes/Suffixes, etc. and with Permissions+ you can add like rank:1 rank:2 etc so you can promote/demote. Maybe if those features were implemented into SuperPerms or whatever they're called, then maybe i'll switch
     
  29. Offline

    rymate1234

    Ok, lets have some chat logs!

    Code:
    [06:32:53] <SwearWord> Nijiko even said his permissions was meant to last a month or less
    [06:32:57] * Cupcake_ is now known as Nightgunner5
    [06:33:05] <SwearWord> That's what he initially wrote it from.
    [06:33:11] <SwearWord> He wrote it knowing it would die
    [06:33:28] <mooman219> it takes a real plugin dev to do that
    Permissions was going to die anyway. Lets let it die already.
     
  30. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    so... you don't like the syntax. or the fact that you can have multiple plugins managing the same permissions.

    You can make groups, even... By making your OWN nodes permissions.yml... You just need a permission manager to assign the nodes!

    But you like ranks, which you could easily have by making multiple parents, each with it's own permissions it controls, along with the child's nodes, easy readability, and a true permission. "yes" or "no"

    If you ever need help. Me, and about a hundred other devs will be GLAD to help you understand how simple this is...

    (And if you have console access, my advanced pail makes it even simpler... by making a gui!)
     
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