[Split] PermissionsEx discussion

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Alexander852, Dec 22, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Offline

    desht

    And anyone who uses PEX to grant themselves the '*' permission node is also asking for trouble. Yet people do that and wonder why plugins don't work as advertised; it's not at all uncommon for plugins to define nodes which should not be granted by default, even to op-level players. To be fair, even the official PEX docs now recommend against using the "*" node, something defenders of this daft practice would do well to take note of (I'm looking at you asofold).

    As I said before, server admins like PEX because it tends to work well for them. They don't need to deal with the fallout that plugin devs do. We don't criticise PEX just for fun.
     
    mastermustard likes this.
  2. Offline

    mastermustard

    well yes but this guy doesnt even seem to have a clue about anything and since its just himself that hes asking about he can just giv full op perms
     
  3. Offline

    s32ialx

    desht

    I totally agree the use of the asterisk while can come in handy for the higher staff only groups but even then you gotta be careful what you are granting for example if you could do a permission.warps.(public|private).* to allow the staff access to all warps that's fine but when you get to other plugins or areas of permissions, if you had something like permission.plugin.autojoin and permission.plugin.autoleave and you did permission.plugin.* you would join and leave almost instantaneously causing an PICNIC lol or an ID-10T error. But yes while I do find the use of the asterisk very useful I would rather it just not be an option then I don't have to worry and no excuse to be lazy and not put the permissions in properly.
     
  4. Offline

    mastermustard

    okay this post has seriously gotten away from its purpose. this is no place for a fight on which plugins work or wether or not its bukkit's fault.
    To the poseter of the thread if you still have PEX installed make sure your running the most recent possible version of craftbukkit that all your plugins afirm there compatible with. basicly by that i mean if 50% of ur plugins have updated to 1.4.6 but the others are still on 1.4.5 take the version of your updated plugins and downgrade them to a 1.4.5 version and run craftbukkit 1.4.5 recommended build.

    also for the command to give you all permissions go into your console and type:
    pex user add [username] permissions.*

    now everybody id say problem solved if your going to continue the fight about wether or not this or that is compatible i dont think this is the place for it.

    (one last note to the thread poster: if you have more questions about your permissionsex i would suggest posting it on permissionsex plugin page where the creators/maintainors of the plugin can answer your questions who will most certainly be correct)
     
  5. If PEX is as broken as a few here say it is, then it deserves to be tested to see where exactly it is broken because a large number of server admins use it. A lot of said admins won't switch to something else without proof that PEX is the cause of their problems.

    Seeing that this topic was split from another topic (about the update), we aren't really going that far off topic. I think it's safe enough to talk about these things here.
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  6. Offline

    mastermustard

    yes but there really was no proof that PEX is to blame here i think whats to blame here is user error by simply typing the wrong command.

    I just tested the latest version of PEX on my server and it worked 100% normally therefor i conclude a user based error

    Also for beginners PEX is a good plugin. You start off at the basics work your way up the better you get. You dont start off imediately at the most complex.
     
  7. Just because you haven't found the error doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
     
  8. Offline

    mastermustard

    im not saying the error doesnt exist if you look at my last post i said that it works good if your just starting out to learn how it works therefor once u get more advanced you use something more complex and less bugged
    what i tested is the permissions.* nothing else
     
  9. Offline

    asofold

    Not to be misunderstood: i don't name you stupid, neither would i name Bukkit-API calls stupid :p

    Well i think async calls just make no sense whatsoever. They are not "valid" by specification and using those to show something just achieves further misinformation, because the async access breaks stuff with a high probability, so all results obtained using such methods are invalid in principle.


    This blade has several edges, so wicked... yes! Actually i am not really that much defending PEX, i did have a look at some details of PEX implementation, out of curiosity. And i can imagine some of the criticism to be quite valid, though i don't find enough evidence to condemn the whole in such a campaign-like way.

    Well, i have not experienced that plugin-dev fallout, probably due to designing without hard coupling negated permissions to ordinary ones. If users don't get the permissions right, you can direct them to the permission-plugin-dev, a '*' permission allows for a simple concept without using op. It can't be that complicated to tell a user not to have permission x to use your plugin, or to use a combination. If you design a simple plugin/mechanism demanding permissions that exclude each other, probably the modeling could have a re-think (not that it would touch your case, though).

    Don't misunderstand me, i am saying that i am missing a concept like a '*' permission. I am not saying that having all permissions is good by default, but i don't like mixing the vanilla concept "op" into permissions that way, one reason is that it is double book-keeping with the ops file. Having op usually means to have all permissions, but Bukkit allows to take some things off ops, so there is an inconsistency concerning "completeness" (op is not '*' as it was used usually). If overriding of permissions granted by different plugins was controllable, things like the '*' permission but also reliable negation of nodes granted by other plugins would be much less problematic, or is PEX to blame for that too?
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  10. No offense, but I'm trying really hard to understand what you are saying and I'm still getting confused each time you post. You really need to use punctuation and actual complete sentences.

    From what I'm guessing, you used 'permissions.*' and it worked? What exactly do you think that permissions node does?

    If the only time PEX breaks is during the async calls to check perms, then we know it's not the fault of PEX but of the other plugin. I'm simply trying to reproduce the bugs mbaxter and others said exist.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2016
  11. Offline

    asofold

    Use an async call once and you can forget any further checking. Just get rid of those.
     
  12. As a long time user of PEX, I'll be the first one to state that PEX is not perfect. There are bugs, yes. Some of the things it does are against the 'rules' of bukkit. However, for my needs, it does the job and nothing else can touch it in terms of it's flexibility and power, nor have I run into cases where it wedges my server (so far anyway).

    mbaxter, I'm not blaming you, so please don't take this as an attack, I love VNP and use it myself.

    However, I do see a lot of people posting problems with it and I personally feel that PEX has unfairly received a bad rep. Perm negation seems to be a big one. Vanish no packet seems to be a common one people have problems with. But it almost always comes down to someone typoing their permissions or not reading the documentation on how PEX does things (negation nodes come before allow nodes).

    I've also seen a lot of people misunderstanding how inheritance works, writing in inheritance loops and causing things to crash.

    Again, PEX isn't perfect, but in my experience from here and the MC Forums, about 90%(ish) of the crashes people blame on PEX are configuration issues they caused by not reading the docs.
     
    s32ialx and mastermustard like this.
  13. I'd like to hear more about how to replicate the server broadcast/message-sending bug that PEX apparently causes.
     
  14. Offline

    mastermustard

    I'm very sorry for that alot of my posts are typed out quickly and I don't bother to proof read. Obviously permissions.* gives you all the permissions, but it causes problems in the long run. I tend to just write out my own permissions rather than use the "*" node, unless its on unimportant private projects. From what i see in PEX files when people claim that the plugin "Doesn't work", is that they typed it out wrong and don't have knowledge of the plugin.
     
  15. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    I haven't tested it in recent months, but PEX at least had completely broken the bukkit method broadcastMessage(String message, String perm) in Server. Anything a plugin tried sending via that method would not go through to anyone but ops. Thus, plugins were blamed for not sending messages when it was in reality PEX not handling the perm check properly.
     
  16. I've been testing with my horrible plugin, and I still have yet to have a real error/bug (unless I incorrectly setup the PEX config).

    I think it might be safe to say PEX isn't as broken as many of us thought.
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  17. Offline

    s32ialx

    You said it! RTFM

    And I love your signature! it's 100% true if you want to be the server owner DO THE WORK YOURSELF! AND LEARN how to don't assume its the plugins fault becuase you don't know that adding a * can also add negative permissions on top of positive ones

    mastermustard really off topic? I am pretty sure you remember that this topic stemmed from http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/craftbukkit-1-4-6-r0-1-is-now-available.117425/ and EvilSeph stripped all the messages relating to PEX to this discussion to talk purely about (defend/attack) PEX and it's benefits and downfalls so unless we start discussing something not related to PEX this topic is 100% on topic

    To note if you want to say anyone created this thread.. it would be EvilSeph and he's already said he is against the use of PEX not to mention

    that permission is a BAD permission to give out

    my Personal config is all PEX related permissions are not even added to the permission database and only I or a staff with remote access can add change update or remove the permissions even further protection on my permissions from staff gone rogue because they had a bad day ontop you can only reload my permissions in the console window/stopping the server


    I've never been able to send a "broadcast" message in a long long time I had to type "/say <msg>" in console and in game to get the message "<SERVER> - <msg>" /broadcast not working has nothing to do with PEX if that's even a command in but I know that /say works fine (which is basically a broadcast but it says SERVER instead of BROADCAST) which I would prefer that later but hey it's not PEX that's the issue there it's bukkit either never had or removed /broadcast but i vaguely remember having it but maybe that was my MC# days back with .30

    but message broadcasts have been fine no problems that I have ever encountered with PEX...

    the fact you say
    means everything your mouth/hands have spouted in all these posts are moot and just trying to cause a flame war because you cannot back any of that up since it's not recent nor relevant to anything because of the simple fact that you don't even have the ground to stand on when you claim OH AVOID THIS PLUGIN IT'S BAD even though months have gone by with out me testing it (and I bet with that kinda bashing on PEX you probably only gave it a small test where most of us have never stopped using it)

    But I do Kudo's you on VNP it's an amazing plugin and works beautiful with PEX. maybe 5 permissions all yea need and your staff can enter exit fake join and have all the fun they want pretending to be there or not and or exploding on entrance haha so fun scaring members as I jolt from a bolt of lighting in front of them that can be heard server wide xD

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2016
  18. He isn't talking about a command, he's talking about a method in the Bukkit API.

    If PEX is, or even was, breaking that, I can see why they'd shy away from it.
     
  19. Offline

    spiral6

    Here's a (kinda good) question, does PEX support wildcard permissions? you know "some.permission.*"
    Because when I used it, it broke.... so is that fixed?
     
  20. From personal experience, that's almost all I do and it works fine.

    I usually put negative permission nodes first, and then a bunch of wildcards.

    EDIT: To clarify, I do this with my admin rank, not my default user rank.
     
    s32ialx and spiral6 like this.
  21. Offline

    spiral6

    k, thanx.
    now hopefully it works....
     
  22. Offline

    s32ialx

    See it's all about knowing how to use pex -block.(have|place|break).lava than block.(have|place|break).* and when the server checks it sees that - and says oh there are not allowed that but they are allowed everything else.
    and oh sorry I'm not a coder I've only hung around one for too long so I only half... know coding and how it's structured. and it's mostly VB/JS/PHP but I notice similarities between them all.

    I'd like to note though that while I was adding permissions for say block data I ran in to a sang that was causing a TON of errors to be tossed around the server and essentially HANG it but that was because of USER error I dug in to MySQL to see why this was happening and what was happening and I was using REGEX to manage most of my permissions to reduce bulk and I noticed on really long entries they were being cut off, essentially destroying the ending of the permission so it didn't die properly, so I had to extend the Permission tables length from the default 200 to 500 to make full use of regex or it would cut the permission table off if thats an issue people are having the fix is increasing your "permission" field in the permissions DB to 500 or so so that you can use the extra space and it won't cut your permissions in half causing loads of errors... it's also a user error if you don't notice that happening... in the exception that it might not be noticed I personally use NaviCat (never had a problem with it not even with MangOS or Trinity cores even tho they say "Don't use Navicat") it makes managing your database a breeze.


    so Bukkit Staff if that's the scenario your talking about that's PICNIC for not realizing there is a limit to how much you can fit in to a SQL string (varchar) by default

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2016
  23. Really? If so, send me the info on that (I'll update the wiki). You should also open a bug report on github for that. I'm sure the devs would like to know of that one.
     
  24. Offline

    s32ialx

    if you mean the error logs as info on that I will check my error log backups if I still have those ones or I can always jsut recreate them for the fun of it I got my whole DB backed up <3 mysql or did you want the steps I took to fix the cut off of the permissions
     
  25. Offline

    NuclearW

    s32ialx

    Why do you keep bolding Bukkit Staff, you're just talking to mbaxter. He's a person you know.
     
  26. Offline

    s32ialx

    Because it's how I feel like doing it and actually no I'm talking to TNT , EvilSeph and mbaxter as well. TNT was the first to pipe in with the "Don't Use PEX" talk all saying that it errors and breaks your server but so far all of us have only seen evidence of user based error or errors the PEX quickly fixed anyways and none of you even use PEX currently just bash it with outdated problems my problem is current and happened with in the last few months but like I said that's PICNIC... Problem In Chair Not In Computer... user error even if PEX could increase the limit by default unless your a power user you probably don't need a higher than 200 length limit, but then again PEX could assume that they are Power Users but not required really. I mean even hmmmquestionmark has tried to force the recreation of said deadlocks etc to no avail.

    I don't dislike Bukkit Staff I do dislike bashing good developers because they go outside the box. Why are you doing Bukkit period if you don't like to "go outside the box" then leave Bukkit scrap it and go back to vanilla and stay in the box.

    LOL Minecraft a game of blocks. just sayin
     
    tanveergt5 likes this.
  27. Actually, send me the line that got cut off. I'll run some tests on my end and see what I can see. Feel free to PM me the info.
     
  28. Offline

    NuclearW

    s32ialx

    Well if you're talking to them, use their usernames. Because you're including a lot of other people who you aren't talking to when you say that.
     
  29. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    s32ialx
    Pretty sure I don't care what you use. However, when provided evidence that one plugin breaks the API, and seeing people having trouble with it, I'll speak out.

    If PEX has fixed those errors, great.
     
  30. Offline

    s32ialx

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page