[Split] PermissionsEx discussion

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Alexander852, Dec 22, 2012.

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  1. Offline

    deadlock989

    Assuming you mean "anecdotal", I agree that it's not the same as empirical evidence, but in many cases it's good enough.

    *shrug* I'm not changing my entire set up for no reason just because someone else says so.
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  2. Offline

    TnT Retired Staff

    Yes, I did mean anecdotal. What can I say, I just woke up. :)

    As for changing your entire setup just cause someone said so, you're right, I wouldn't either. I would consider it if I was provided solid reasons for why that plugin breaks.
     
  3. Offline

    deadlock989

    But it doesn't break when I use it.
     
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  4. Offline

    s32ialx

    +1 whats your set up I wonder if it has to do with using .yml or not because I have it hooked to a MySQL DB
     
  5. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Whether it tears down your server depends on what other plugins you are using. Meaning that each time you change plugins including just update existing plugins you risk your server gaining a new crash reason.
     
  6. Offline

    deadlock989

    Boo hoo. Happens anyway. About 5% of the plugins available are any good.

    Been using PEX for 18 months with zero issues.
     
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  7. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    If your server deadlocks and you consider it normal, you might have a problem :p
     
  8. Offline

    deadlock989

    No, it doesn't. Never has. And we used PEX all the way.

    Had some grief with some plug-in called VanishNoPacket but we just uninstalled it, problem solved.
     
  9. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    While I appreciate the personal attacks, I've had no bug reports in VNP for quite some time now. If you have any bugs to report, please let me know :)

    Your plugin setup must not trigger the PEX bugs. That's just luck, though.
     
    evilmidget38 and lol768 like this.
  10. Offline

    s32ialx

    I wouldn't call the most used not the most bugged permission plugin "Luck" that it worked.. Like I said before any fails is due to the users lack of expertise with alternate data methods I've been using PEX for along time and no other plugin for permissions offered a hook for MySQL to store the permissions inheritance and the users/groups which is safe and secure as long as you know what your doing (which you should if your trying to run a server of any kind) you will have set up MySQL correctly and securely and hooking PEX into MySQL is a breeze and much cleaner to add permissions and way more organized and accessible/editable than that ugly .yml flatfile.

    That or the "Experienced Server Owner" used a wildcard they shouldn't have... LOL IMO Essentials isn't essential to my server to much of a "Monopoly" of features if you ask me kinda like SUN took the Monopoly of JavaVM with forcing the only true competition with a Copyright infringement, MicrosoftVM. Who holds most cards holds the power and when essentials changes something I might not like that change and instead of having to disable that or bypass it just forget it completely.
     
  11. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    s32ialx The deadlocking and message blocking is not a user configuration mistake. It can happen even on any setup on PEX. Depends on your plugins chosen.

    Many issues can arise when you configure a plugin poorly. The issues I describe when talking about PEX are not due to this.
     
  12. Offline

    s32ialx

    Still I doubt it's PEX and Probably the plugin themselves not liking PEX... which would be the Developer of the Plugin, and a bad server operator to use plugins that do not work together... which there are many that do not work with others excluding PEX.

    -- LOL and I just thought about this but if it's not user configuration it wouldn't depend on the users plugins that in my eyes is the users error for mixing bad plugins! LOL jokes
     
  13. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    No, it really isn't. This issue, shown through many thread dumps I've seen lately, is a PEX issue. Why do you continue to change your story while maintaining the belief that I'm lying to you? I don't develop for any permissions plugin, and I don't suggest just one or two plugins - I suggest switching to any plugin that isn't PEX.
     
  14. Offline

    s32ialx

    Exactly the only plugin that PROTECTS your hard to type out permission file you tell users to not use... the ONLY permission plugin I have seen to support MySQL. your obviously bad developers if you think SQL support is not a good enough reason to use PEX the fact that I have not once and STILL do not see a single Problem with PEX and MANY others all taking my side not yours just Bukkit Staff on your side... sounds like your being paid off in your donations more then being a helpful team.

    Seriously why don't you do your "staff job" and keep the forum on topic and stop bashing the good plugins for your own plugins... or your mates plugins... sorry all the other plugins maybe are just as efficient but if any thing bad happens during an update all your configs get wiped... not a very good reason for me to switch from PEX and MySQL to a resettable .yml flatfile... I do not have any protection from your server bugging or a bugged plugin from resetting any .yml to defaults where with sqlite and MySQL I have 100% protection from bugs resetting my settings.

    Also to note... any plugin that causing my Server to "deadlock" or glitch out with PEX instantly gets a blacklisting in my book as it's PEX over features for me. Protection over Extra fun and so far other then my own personal reason for not using essentials NONE PEX related, I have not run in to a plugin that has had an issue with PEX nor a Plugin that can't do what Essentials does or Better.
     
  15. Offline

    BranicYeti

    You yourself here just said that it would be bad for the developer of the plugin to make a plugin that does not work with other plugins. How is PEX not included in that list? PEX is a plugin that completely bypasses Bukkit's permission system. I would guess that at one point, it was brilliant because Bukkit didn't have permission checks, but now it is redundant.

    I'm not saying that the developer of PEX is a bad developer. I haven't seen his code and I don't particularly want to. But at this point, PEX is pointless and is just breaking everything because it isn't necessary. From what I can tell, the developer is making a PEX 2, which might be just as good as current permission plugins that don't break everything, but we can't say for sure. Best of luck to t3hkod3 with that.

    On a side note, rather than arguing with mbaxter and telling him he should be doing his job as BukkitDev staff (Seriously why don't you do your "staff job" and keep the forum on topic and stop bashing the good plugins), why don't you just shut up, keep your opinion to yourself (everyone is entitled to them, but no-one wants to hear it) and let this thread die a natural death.
     
  16. Offline

    NuclearW

    This thread has been split off of this thread.

    And while it's unlocked now, please keep any further discussion civil, as if you do not I'll have to lock the thread.
     
  17. Offline

    BranicYeti

    Thanks for the split. Apologies for derailing the 146 thread.
     
  18. Offline

    seiterseiter1

    Pex is a bad permission plugin choice but I use it anyway for some odd reason. But I have noticed that most of the "huge" servers that have hundreds of players on at a time use pex as a permission plugin so why dont they get these bugs?
     
  19. Offline

    Necrodoom

    they do. more than one time when i visit these servers, i see PEX causing an issue with one of the plugins, and when i mention it, they simply throw that plugin out, saying that "PEX is perfect". it makes you want to shoot yourself.
     
  20. Offline

    seiterseiter1

    The server im thinking of has been around for a long time and used PEX the whole time and is always updated really fast it never has map resets unless they are scheduled and the server runs perfectly (for what i can tell). The server would usualy have about 300 people at bad times and the highest i have seen it is with 1200 people on.
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  21. Offline

    NuclearW

    How about we not use anecdotal evidence, and simply stick to the facts? Lets also not generalize others, nor put words in their mouths.
     
  22. Offline

    Necrodoom

    wait, 1200 at the same time?
     
  23. Offline

    seiterseiter1

    Yes it uses bungee cord by md_5 and I know because I have seen the plugin list.
     
  24. Offline

    midnightfang22

    Anyone have a plugin name that would cause the deadlocking with PEX at this time? I actually want to try and force one...
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  25. Offline

    deadlock989

    *shrug* Do as you would be done by.
     
  26. Offline

    asofold

    I experienced PermissionsEx as a very reliable and feature-rich permissions plugin, which does many things right in terms of conceptions and designs. I remember having to use some configuration settings to make some things work once or twice, and they did work (could have been a dev version problem of either CB or PEX, though). The /reload command is disabled on my servers, for various reasons.

    I don't know any specific info about those "mine"-issues, i guess linking the bug reports or source code could make the arguments more durable, so we don't get the impression that "1000-CB-builds old knowledge" is used instead of actual evidence, never know...
     
    s32ialx likes this.
  27. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Essentials does, under the right conditions (I never looked far into it, since the issue is PEX)

    Just write a quick and dirty plugin that spams asynchronous-to-the-main-thread perm lookups, that should do it quickly.
     
  28. Offline

    s32ialx

    let me just quote the bottom of PEX's Bukkit Dev homepage ... Bukkit Permissions (SuperPerms) compatible.

    Such a bypass that it's compatible with bukkits permission well usually a bypass skips the permissions systems no? LOL also to note... all these "this plugin is bad" from the staff but yet you still approve PEX as a SAFE plugin to use with Bukkit... since you guys approved PEX for 1.4.6 on Dec 24th Why even bother ALLOWING us use of it if it's OH SO BAD.


    mbaxter tnt
    what is the point of Dev.bukkit.org if so your developers can screen plugins... If your just going to approve every plugin anyways lets go back to the old ways and just have forum submissions because your wasting our times, with all this needs approval of NOTHING oh wait, or is it just "oh that staff must not be using the plugin that I used." well anyways why do we all HAVE to use your plugins that YOU made or your FRIEND bukkit staff stay on your target and work on bukkit and stop developing plugins leave that to us to decide what plugins to make and what ones to use... OR do your plugins but then FORCE those ones if they are oh so good... why don't you just make your own forced permission system so people cannot fall for pex that works perfectly fine and GETS APPROVED ALL THE TIME by Bukkit so it must be good all the good servers are using it.. well again.. REMOVE AND STOP APPROVING PEX if it is sooooooo bad. and if your not going to do that then drop your bashing and don't let the door hit you on the way out, and stop bullying PEX Developers because you don't like that they thought outside the box.

    ... Had more but I just woke up sorry I'll add it if I remember

    and
    Thanks Sorry I was not trying to get off topic on that thread, I just do not appreciate Bukkit Staff bashing plugins and basically bullying the developer. when they are approving the plugin as safe to use and it's only a few plugins that are not easily replaced with alternatives that work Perfectly in PEX. So far your staff has no proven any evidence as well to there claims that it's bad bad bad... real evidence not a 1000 build old reports... etc... they just bash the plugin even though is MOST USED.

    You guys need to either provide proof of these or stop being bullies.. and relevant proof not out dated garbage, solid evidence... because all of us have solid evidence of PEX being fine no crashes or anything no deadlocks, if your not a complete ... and know how to set it up.

    and /reload messes my server with or without PEX... I use the plugins specific reload to reload settings because Bukkit cannot make /reload work... if its Mojangs fault in the end or not we'll blame Bukkit since they like to blame PEX for going outside the box also.
     
  29. Offline

    Zankla

    And I for one appreciate that you don't ... PEX was doable until 1.4.6 even though it was buggy. But just look in bukkit help and see how many problems people are having.
     
  30. Offline

    midnightfang22

    Actually, almost all of the answers to the problem in the help section for PEX for the 1.4.6 update was simply "update it" and the dev 1.4.6 build was out since December 18th. Don't really see the big deal since it was updated relatively quickly. Now, if it stayed broken for weeks and no dev build was available to get it working, then yes it would be essentially dropped by a lot of people or they would just not update for weeks until an update was out.
    You mean the essentials crash I saw a few times in the help section on the previous PEX version? It seemed to fix on the update, or do a quick patch of whatever was needed to be done for the update. Been using pex and essentials in combination and it's never popped up for me, but I run stuff on test servers first and check for updates daily, so I usually stay up-to-date on most of the plugins I use (as far as versions/uploads go). As for writing a quick plugin, I would if I knew how, but I don't have the time to learn java from scratch at the moment :(. I can read java relatively well and can logically see how it appears to be done after looking at source code and stack traces for a few months because of plugin errors that occasionally pop up, but that is about it. I don't know formatting or the core basics for the language and don't have time learn it. When I get enough free time I'll try it out.

    Edit: I really need to get back to formatting my walls of text...that looks horrible.
     
    s32ialx likes this.
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