Server owners - Bukkit - and Mojang. OFFICIAL server shut down notice.

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by pilotdan1985, Sep 8, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    pilotdan1985

    Before I continue any further I would like to summarize my current opinion of what has been happening between Mojang and Bukkit. First of all I get the general impression that Mojang doesn't care about Bukkit. I think they feel that Bukkit is an optional thing that's just an add on to their game. Like it doesn't really matter to them. I believe Mojang feels that since people have already purchased their game, people are going to play it. I feel that minecraft is as popular as it is due to minecraft multiplayer servers running Bukkit. I, as a server owner would not ever entertain the idea of running a multiplayer online server without Bukkit for litterally tons of reasons.
    Lastly, It seems its basically Mojang's fault that most of the Bukkit developers are leaving the project. I do not like the attitude of Mojang's COO from his post: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/mojang-and-the-bukkit-project.309715/ When I see someone that works for a company that I have a great deal of respect for, and out of my general love for the game Minecraft say things like "there is no obligation" or "We would have loved to have done this sooner but we’ve been insanely busy" and so many other disturbing comments from his letter It really really upsets me. By the way, this was this guy’s one and only post on these forums since he joined the bukkit community on Friday, it seems the only thing he cared to do after he posted was to change his occupation in his profile to say COO at Friday at 11:47 AM 2 nearly hours after his post. Not a single reply. Im guessing this was the attitude towards Bukkit the entire time mojang supposedly owned it.

    I now find myself in a position that maybe I can do something to help bukkit. I was trying to think of a way that I personally can do something to light a fire under Mojang's butt to do something to help us get 1.8 out for our servers. I think Mojang should drop everything they are doing IMMEDIATELY and help bukkit survive any way they can. Mojang should get in touch with all previous Bukkit developers and “heal the wound” Mojang has a lot of money, I'm sure you all can see where I’m going with this. As a disclaimer here, Im not suggesting ideas – I’m just saying in general – Mojang – don’t turn your back on bukkit!

    With all of that said, we server owners need to pull together and help Bukkit. I have an idea that if we could get a ton of server owners together to show Mojang the seriousness of the current bukkit issue…
    Going back to what I said about Mojang thinking "people have already purchased their game, people are going to play it” and “lighting a fire under Mojangs butt to help us” I want mojang to help bukkit and I don’t think Mojang realizes the severity of their current stance, based on the words of their COO himself.

    People won’t play minecraft if they don’t have any servers to play on! I say we all boycott mojang and shut down our servers until there is a beta version of the most current version of Minecraft bukkit available for download at https://dl.bukkit.org/downloads/bukkit/ just like there always has been.

    (note- I have edited the following from my original idea) I’ll be staging a temporary server shut down of my own servers (all 9) at the end of the week, on 9/12/14 for one week unless we start to see some forward progress here. This will temporarily disable a community that has a near perfect track record for being up and running for over 4 years. We've seen more than 6,000 player joins, and an active community of 250-300 people that I basically call family. My server shutdown is to hopefully raise awareness to Mojang about my feelings with the bukkit project, and how important it is to run my servers.

    Any other server owner out there should do the same to show your support for bukkit and its team! We wouldn't have servers without them!

    The choice is yours Mojang. Do you truly support your online community or not? Server owners, please back me up on this!

    Sincerely

    pilotdan1985
    www.pilotdan1985.com
    connection addresses:
    mc.pilotdan1985.com
    mc.pilotdan1985.com:1985
     
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  2. Offline

    AdamQpzm

    pilotdan1985 Please remove the formatting to the post, you might have a good point here but I couldn't get very far into it. My eyes were starting to give up and my brain was confused at how every word should apparently be emphasised :(
     
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  3. Offline

    AravanFox

    I agree that Mojang underestimates how many of the players stick around for the modded servers and encourage others to buy MC to join them. It's word of mouth. Every server is a new flavor of ice cream; why stick to vanilla when here is chocolate and over there is rocky road?
     
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  4. Offline

    imN8

    nvm fixed
     
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  5. Offline

    DHLF

    pilotdan1985
    I remember a plugin which should kept users from joining on a special day due to changes in the EULA..
    Does this protest changed anything? (I can not remember the name.. sorry)

    I do "salute" you for your courage of shutting down servers for showing your protest.
    It will be a hard time for you trying to explain this to your players..

    It will change nothing i fear. But if we do nothing.. nothing will change for sure!

    But I will try to keep up with your idea leaving just one server online.
    This is not exactly what you wanted, but hey 2/3 of them will be shut down asap :confused:.

    The downside of your idea is.. people who find no servers will make up their own..
    Thanks to the DMCA they will hardly find bukkit jars ^^

    In spite of the DMCA game-server-companies around the world still advertise craftbukkit servers..

    Thank god vanilla is(compared to craftbukkit/whatever) only suitable for small groups of users.
     
  6. Offline

    extended_clip

    You should def change the thread title. Using OFFICIAL in a title is sort of misleading with the current state of the community imo.
     
  7. Offline

    deltahat

    Just something to consider: you remember how you felt when you first saw the DMCA post and realized the bukkit community had died. Your players are going to feel the same way. In my opinion it's better to support your players as best you can with what you have left than to kill your own community to try to spite Mojang. Instead, keep your players informed, explain them the realities of the situation, lead them as best you can through these dark times, and if need be, go down with your ship with dignity. Spreading pain does nobody any good.
     
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  8. Offline

    asofold

    Doesn't the snooper thingy tell Mojang how many slots are with what mod? I was (secretly) thinking that all the time, if anyone could tell, then it would be them. But maybe i am missing out some parts.
     
  9. Offline

    AravanFox

    hmm, i think it's your Java and OS that MC snoops? Maybe you are thinking MCstats?
     
  10. Offline

    DHLF

    Oh, I have not thought about that before you mentioned it.
    It is just.. we are so completly helpless, we have to do something, but what?
    Why is Mojang not communicating?

    Someone said he has written an email to Mojang:confused:
    Some may running in the dark and doing dark magic :eek:
    Enthusiast will try to remove *forbidden* code out of Craftbukkit
    I lowered the number of running servers just by 2.

    And yes I am already linking to the forum posts to let my "players" decide for themselves why what happened.
     
  11. Offline

    asofold

    Sorry, i meant there is a setting called "snooper-enabled" for vanilla Minecraft, it's about sending anonymous data to Mojang. I assume it sends at least the version info including mod name/version, could include slots.
     
  12. Offline

    Madam Questing

    We are already brainstorming on what to do, how to use our funding the best we can. I don't know what is going to happen, but I can't wait until the end to be left with nothing and be expected to have the answers. I have watched the player base dwindle not only on my server but others over the last few months and now this. I am watching very closely, but I can't justify dropping $1000 to keep the server up when I have been trusted with this money to provide for my community. I don't know what to do, but plan a head and do the best we can, but information would be good right now.
     
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  13. Offline

    WittyWIDI

    As a player on the server the OP hosts (Pilotdan1985), I agree wholeheartedly to each and every statement. However, I would like to add one thing. Wesley is concerned only with keeping his contributions to himself by issuing DMCAs which he has no right to issue. Vu Bui and company are concerned only with keeping their image on the happy part of the scale. The first is just plain selfish. The second is Disney-esque. Both need to stop. I issue this word of warning to Mojang, that come Friday, you will incur millions of euros (or whatever currency they use up in jolly old Sweden, forgive me for my ignorance) in losses as compared to your record-breaking sales. I call upon you to take back the new EULA. I call upon you to bring back the Bukkit Project. I call upon you to rekindle multiplayer life into what has become the No. 1 game in the whole world. Until then, adieu. I think I can speak for the Minecraft community as a whole when I say that I am going to boycott Mojang until you get your act together. You claim to be a honorable company concerned more with giving hours of fun to people, you need to back that. Singing off.
     
  14. Offline

    ZanderMan9

    A single server shutting down isn't going to do much. If you want to really protest, you are going to have to organize several servers, popular servers, shutting down. And making sure Mojang knows WHY.

    I dunno, maybe Anonymous will be doing something about this... who knows?
     
  15. Offline

    mossyblog

    I do think in part Mojang are at fault here for not preparing for this day but I don't disagree with the COO's position per say. In the end Modding is integral part of any gaming community and the games that tend to let gamer(s) mod the original product to explore their creativity usually are the ones that last the distance. An example when in the 90's we played Quake, it was the mods that ruled Quake not necessarily Quake itself, and guys like me got involved in the modding scene as a way to cut our teeth in learning how the game industry works - i myself got my first taste of gaming by joining the Teamfortress team at the time as a 2D texture artist. Valve bought TeamFortress Software (much like Bukkit and Mojang) did today and well it has worked out brilliantly for them - because they prepared and understood the nature of the relationship.
    In this instance, it seems like Bukkit Team aren't happy about a range of issues that some are private and others are more public and its hard to point fingers at either side. Instead its left the entire conversation and messaging up for debate with forum chatter that are either misinformed or spend most of the time speculating (i call this community therapy).
    Now going forward, Mojang probably could sit down and build a better communication framework around the boundaries of distribution and modification of their intellectual property. As a modder, I don't expect Mojang to give me GPL level license over their product, as I understand in the end this is their IP and they have to protect it legally (goes to liability concerns as well). However, as a modder if I can get a specific licence arrangement with the company that outlines the do's and don't clearly whilst at the same time abide by their Non-Profit assertion then we can begin to heal this community divide right now.
    The biggest concern going forward is if a Mod team takes the original JAR files, deobsfucate the methods to find areas to inject the necessary signatures to bootstrap a Modding framework what are the legal issues with doing this per team. Furthermore how can we work as a cohesive entity to make this less about hacking the obsfucated code and working with their release management protocols to come up with a more cleaner and less hacky approach as that we can help retain marketing momentum around release time whilst at the same time raise the level of maturity in all of our approaches to modding.
     
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  16. Offline

    pilotdan1985

    I have re evaluated my original decision to shut down my servers. I can not abandon my community just to prove a point. I do, however, plan to stage a temporary server shutdown on the same day 9/12/14 - for a 1 week period to hopefully raise awareness of my opinion of current events with the bukkit project. I will be contacting Mojang directly today and making them aware of my plans here. Everyone should join me in my effort - I really need some help from you other server owners out there. One temporary server shutdown will not have much effect here. Please help Bukkit by reading my original post.
     
  17. Offline

    Rexel

    Mojang screwed up big time, greedy careless and most of all disgusting lack of respect to those who have kept this project going while they've spent the time doing sweet FFFF all to help servers or provide a proper API to migrate to...

    in the end the API was always the carrot on the stick that they dangled and had no intention of ever developing especially to the extent bukkit did for servers or forge did for client mods, Mojang were expected to come up with an API that combined both, they are too busy gauging money on other console platforms and prefer a playerbase of kids who can be satisfied with pathetic updates.

    Not even getting into how there relationship with Curse and how they are allowed to run official minecraft communities.. Are Mojang and Curse really that cheap and tight.. yes

    Expect more servers to dwindle and die off in the coming months Mojang multimillion dollar company that has a shoe string budget for its biggest cashcow game. It is laughable just how bad they are, jeb should be sacked his twitter comments alone to EvilSeph are a disgrace and insult to anyone who has worked on the bukkit project. Nevermind all there other actions

    Curse and Mojang belong in the same pit.

    I wouldn't shutdown your server to prove a point, simply frontpage your thoughts to your community and let them know what has happened, I imagine lots of servers are going to end up shutting down because of this in the coming months.. without bukkit there is no decent plugins, without plugins the game and servers are going to be pretty crap.
     
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  18. Offline

    AravanFox

    When I read Jeb's "dug up the receipt" comment, I felt the sting of the b----slap he gave Evil. My first thought was, "What an ass. I've lost a hero today."

    It was very immaturely worded, and was perhaps a conversation that should have never been made public. Hmm, let me clarify that. We needed to know that Bukkit was bought, but the way it came out was bratty. If the team wanted to quit because they were exhausted, he should have replied with concern, in private... not imply, publicly, that the team was "bored."
     
  19. Offline

    Rexel

    Jeb is an imbecile along with there COO, suffice to stay I'm glad everyone at Bukkit threw in the towel. Mojang and Curse are both just parasites that would prefer it if everyone just played ball and got on with making them money.
     
  20. Offline

    Rachel2560


    It's annoying to see some of their comments on reddit too.

    You can tell some things go right over their head and they either don't care or don't know how they are coming across to people.
     
  21. Offline

    pilotdan1985

    Just to let everyone know, I'm still planning on shutting down my servers tomorrow for a week. I have emailed Mojang about their status with Bukkit with no reply.

    I hope they do something soon :(
     
  22. Offline

    lecraeman


    This post makes me sick. EvilSeph was going to abandon this project. Mojang said they'd step up and save it, but then an old bukkit dev starts causing legal issues. They can't do much. They did not have written permission from the guy to allow them to use his code. It's the guys fault that bukkit has come to a halt. His attitude is stupid and meaningless. He killed the community.

    You guys turn around and blame Mojang (The people who were going to help). That's stupid. They can't do anything. Stop blaming Mojang for all the problems. They tried to help us, and they've got nothing but backlash from ungrateful people. You have fun shutting down your servers.

    Any major server already had a private developer working on a version of bukkit, and won't be in any trouble. Also spigot apparently has an alternative (Even though they had to delete their old files as well). You also have new projects like Sponge popping up.

    Bukkit is almost dead. Stop blaming Mojang. I wouldn't blame them if they completely shut off the project after seeing the reaction of the community. All these Prominent members stepping down, because they're unhappy about how Mojang handles things. Pathetic (Only one who had an excuse was TnT, because he has a child now). The community is dying, because of it's own stupidity.

    Let these new projects take hold. I am personally about finished with bukkit. The community has failed me with this whole thing, and I wouldn't blame Mojang if they just forget it exists. The only thing I liked about bukkit are these forums, and even they are restrictive and often unhelpful.

    Have fun closing your servers. It won't do any good. You're just making your players miserable for your own bad attitude. This is not a government, and we're not having "protests" or "boycotts". There are other server APIs, and this project was an experiment from the start.

    Plus, Mojang will more than likely provide their own API in the near future. So, Have fun.


    Please tell me you're kidding. That was obviously something he had talked to EvilSeph about. EvilSeph was even happy about it.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2016
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  23. Offline

    Jaaakee224

    lecraeman Mojang said they were going to make an official API soon, that was probably over a year ago. Maybe things will change because of Bukkit, who knows.
     
  24. Offline

    lecraeman

    Jaaakee224 Like I said...there are other APIs available.
     
  25. Offline

    Jaaakee224

    lecraeman
    I was just quoting this:
    Not the other parts.
     
  26. Offline

    AravanFox

    Please tell me your kidding... I know internet lacks inflection, but it was a snarky comeback.

    The point of my post was this:
    Jeb: "Warren over at bukkit seems to have forgotten ... isn't his to discontinue... if Warren is bored... This is not a joke..."

    Say these things out loud. They are disrespectful. These are words that are used to talk down to someone. These are words I would say to my kid with my arms crossed, my brow furrowed, and my foot tapping. It's demeaning.

    As for Mojang handling it all poorly, what immediately comes to mind is THIS thread. The quote that sums it up is, "With large and significant changes coming in Minecraft 1.8 that we'll be hard pressed to provide support for and the lack of support from Mojang with updates since acquiring our original core team (Mojang used to provide us with mappings to speed up the update process), there is little motivation for us to continue limping on across various aspects of the project."
    I could see the resignation as a plee/bid for help, which was successful with Dinnerbone stepping up. Yes, Evil was happy that it worked.
    We haven't forgotten that Wolvereness threw a wrench it all, something that could have happened at any point prior with any contributor. Mojang is in their right, Wolvereness is in his right, blah, blah, we don't have to rehash that. WE KNOW.

    If/When Microsoft acquires Mojang, the mod community has to fear whether ANY unofficial API can survive. We have been promised an official API for YEARS. It's hard to hope for something, when the ones that promised have been playing catch-up for years. Readable books (Bookworm) New Biomes (Biomes o'Plenty) Rabbits and horses (Mo' Mobs).
    And I still can't see the fish I've been catching!

    Poked around reddit. Must be blind, i don't see those guys anywhere?

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2016
  27. Offline

    ERROR372

    And what EvilSeph did wasn't disrespectful? Taking down an entire project/community in one fell swoop, and compromising Mojang's project without discussing with Mojang? That's not disrespectful at all?
     
  28. Offline

    AravanFox

    Did you open the spoiler and read the message from the team? "We"
    http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-its-time-to-say.305106/

    And Mojang has made it clear they were hands off. http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/mojang-and-the-bukkit-project.309715/

    There is a tweet by one of the mojang team saying they have no use for bukkit, can't find it at this moment.

    In any case, Mojang's stance is they only bought Bukkit it keep it for the community, were hands off as to not interfere with the community, but have no use for it as an official API, and Dinnerbone stepped in after the team quit to maintain it for the community. That was their only involvement with "Mojang's project".

    But if you followed my comments back, Rexel and I were discussing Jeb_'s comments, specifically, and other Mojang's employees' comments, in general. "The opinions in this program do not necessarily reflect the opinions of this station or their affiliates!" But it still makes them look bad.
     
  29. Offline

    bluexephos500

    mojang are idiots just becuase minecraft is their game it does not mean that they can stop bukkit. bukkit can fight back and keep developing new jars without bukkit minecraft is long gone if bukkit goes then thats it everyone is gone from minecraft and mojang will be out of busniss
     
  30. Offline

    DusRonald

    bluexephos500 Craftbukkit contains Minecraft content, that content has copyright. Bukkit do not have permission to use that content.

    But if BukkitDev Team developing a new version of Bukkit without NMS (Net.Minecraft.Server) then can Bukkit resume the project.
     
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