[Poll] Will you use Bukkit Plugin Studio? (for developers)

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Killie01, Dec 6, 2011.

?

Would u use?

  1. Yes

    32.4%
  2. No

    47.9%
  3. Maybe

    19.7%
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  1. Offline

    Killie01

    we know, we're aiming at january - february, and (closed) beta at end of this month.

    and please all people stop about it not being better than eclipse and such, WE KNOW!!!!
    please, we're just trying to help developers, who are pretty new to java and bukkit development.
    if you don't want to use it, fine, but don't keep whining about it.
     
  2. Offline

    Vhab

    Don't ask for feedback and honest opinions when you can't handle replies that disagree with you.

    You received these replies because you implied otherwise:
     
    Abrupt likes this.
  3. Offline

    PluginStudio

    i can handle them, but it's getting repeated over and over (im killie01 on bps account btw.)
    it's going to be happening anyways.
     
  4. Offline

    Killie01

    yeH... i got annoyed there. Im certain it CAN be, but it probably wont...
     
  5. Offline

    Vhab

    Why do you think several people state the same thing?
    We're not out to get you or anything. You're receiving valid and constructive feedback.
    Getting angry over feedback doesn't help anyone, especially not yourself.
     
  6. Offline

    Killie01

    Previous posts of yours explained me now.
    but still...

    Well, there can't be a limit on a certain type of program. We're making something new with a dedication to certain development.
    So we dont need alot of advanced features, that a daily plugin dev, wont use anyway.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2016
  7. Offline

    thehutch

    I would just love to say that through this new IDE I am learning C# as well so I think something like this is something worth while taking an interest to, also for all you people who are complaining and whining, why are you here then if you don't like it why comment yes we asked for feedback but not in a rude way saying why waste your time do this do that, why not say well I wouldn't use it but maybe for new developers maybe this feature X would be very useful. Also why would we waste our time on something we don't believe in ? I would love to know.

    Anyway, I think everyone should support this project whether or not you will use it, and yes this IDE will have lots of features and we are no-where near done and yes we(Aron) has spent quite a bit of money on this so don't make us feel bad please its rude and the team nor I will tolerate it.

    Thank you for those who have been nice and given generous feedback
    Yours truly
    thehutch
     
  8. Offline

    Vhab

    I'm sorry you're not pleased with the feedback you received after specifically asking for it.
    I don't see any whining or rude behavior though.
    Personally I find it disappointing to simply just call feedback "whining and rude" simply because they disagree with you.

    I don't know. Unfortunately my computer is not equipped with mind reading equipment.

    I find it highly unfortunate the both of you feel the need to get this defensive.
    If you actually looked at the feedback you received you find there's actually quite some interest in the idea behind this, but somewhat of a disagreement in its execution.
    The general consensus seems to be the proposed set of features would make for an excellent plugin rather than a part of a completely new IDE.

    You're simply assuming people reply just to be mean and rude. Because of this you're completely missing the fact there actually is interest being shown, but in a way that is somewhat different from your current approach.
    These replies are not intended to completely shut you down and give up, rather they are aimed to redirect your focus and approach into somewhat that may appeal to a much wider public.

    Take a step back. Get your emotions under control and carefully read what is being said in this thread.
     
    Abrupt likes this.
  9. Offline

    thehutch

    Well...

    We are pleased with this feedback never said we weren't don't twist our words, also to be honest only you seem to whining and also your overall attitude which I am getting from your comments doesn't register as nice friendly behavior to me.

    I was asking a question hence the question mark and don't you get sarcastic with me it's the lowest form of whit.

    We aren't getting defensive your perspective of whatever upside down angle your reading this conversation from is completely wrong maybe you should re-read I am clearly stating that your comments to me personally have a tint of rudeness in them in the way that I am perceiving them so please do not reply unless you have anything else valid to say.
     
  10. Offline

    sorklin

    Maybe you guys need to step back and take a look at your goals. If you want to help new bukkit plugin coders, then writing an IDE is not the most effective way to do that. It would be far more effective to write a plugin for one or both of the big two and help that way. If your goal is to write an IDE, then more power to you. But don't pretend that you are doing it to help beginners.

    Think of it this way: if a couple of people came forward to basically recreate bukkit as a new project to make it easier to work with, versus extending bukkit to achieve that goal. We're asking you why you want to recreate the wheel? If you really want to help beginners, make the exiting IDE's more customized to bukkit and the plugin framework. Not only will you really help everyone, but you won't have to re-do code and interface that has already been done. Just like you wouldn't code a new server framework just to make some new functionality in minecraft. Much easier to write a plugin and leverage the code that has already been done.
     
    Vhab and Abrupt like this.
  11. Offline

    NuclearW

    Sorry, just too stuck on my own IDE.
     
  12. Offline

    Abrupt

    I agree that making a plugin for eclipse or netbeans would be a hell of a lot better than an entirely new IDE. I personally am in love with Eclipse, and would never switch over to a completely new editor. if your goals are truly to benefit the plugin developer community, then I'd suggest creating a plugin instead.

    and you'll probably take this as me bitching and being rude, but just to clear this up now I'm not.
     
    Vhab likes this.
  13. Offline

    Kaikz

    I don't understand why the hell someone would use this over a proper IDE anyway. They both do the same things, and the proper IDE (Eclipse, NetBeans) probably does X better. You're catering to the lazy/stupid.
     
    Vhab likes this.
  14. Offline

    moparisthebest

    I have to say I agree with almost everyone in this thread saying a plugin for eclipse, netbeans, or IDEA would be many times better than a (windows-only, mind you) custom IDE written by anyone in a few months time.
     
    Vhab likes this.
  15. Offline

    Perdog

    I'd try it out, but unless the GUI was really smooth, and I could get used to it pretty fast, then I'd probably stay with eclipse. I would really like to give it a try just to see what it's like though :) Considering I've given all other IDE's a chance. But as said above me, adding to an existing IDE would probably be better.
     
  16. Offline

    PluginStudio

    wait, why would this not be proper? we use the text-editor used by SharpDevelop that is used by alot of people.
    and this will not be just some random IDE wich is made out of boredom.
    we're trying to help new devs, not trying to get you from eclipse to BPS (everyone says we need a plugin for eclipse, maybe we'll do that too)
     
  17. Offline

    desht

    Windows only Java development software? No thanks.
     
  18. Offline

    PluginStudio

    ok, i assume u use mac then?
    if u use windows, than it shouldn't matter.
     
  19. Offline

    desht

    Nope, Linux. The point is that Java is a cross-platform language, all existing worthwhile IDEs (Eclipse, Netbeans, Intellij) are cross-platform, so intentionally creating a non-cross-platform IDE (which isn't even written in Java) is a just a little... pointless.
     
  20. Offline

    ZachBora

    If they're doing it in C# then it's possible to make it work on Linux as long as they don't use Windows libraries. There's http://www.mono-project.com that I've heard of that would allow it to work on Linux and Mac.
    Now regarding your IDE, I'd gadly give it a try. I've only started using Eclipse in August (I've used it prior to August but not as much) and could easily see what I'm missing in your IDE that I can use in Eclipse, unlike people who've been using the same IDE for longer time.
    What people wrote here sounds a lot like back when Chrome came out and a lot of people wanted to stick with Firefox or IE. The only difference is that Google is a big company. I think people just don't have much faith in you guys because
    1. You're not many working on it
    2. You seem to have a program ready in 2-3months
    3. I think I saw above that thehutch is in the project and stated that he is just starting in c#
     
    thehutch likes this.
  21. Offline

    Lolmewn Retired Staff

    Sounds like a great idea!
     
    thehutch likes this.
  22. Offline

    Killie01

    nope, since alot of people use windows, and a mac version might come.

    1. to start off with indeed. we'll recruit some devs later.
    2. does not have to be, and that 2 -3 months will be (closed) beta.
    3. he's in for the learning of c#.

    i get what you guys ment now.
    well, it's fairly simple why we want a new app.
    it look cleaner than eclipse (IMO eclipse looks like a mess)
    it's for learning c# even more.
    and also for fun.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2016
  23. Offline

    ZachBora

    Not sure what you mean. It is indeed different than Visual Studio (which I use daily) but I don't see what is a mess in it.
     
  24. Offline

    JeroenFM

    I'm with the "No" crowd, for a number of reasons:
    • I use Linux for Java development
    • You're too far behind existing IDEs such as Eclipse (which I use daily), Netbeans and IDEA, with no hope of catching up
    But the most important reason is that I think a brand new IDE is the wrong approach to the problem: it's like tearing down a wall and redesigning it from scratch because you want to fit it around a painting, rather than simply putting a nail into the wall.

    The goals you guys stated essentially amount to "create shortcuts for repetitive actions". Creating an IDE is definitely not the easiest way to go about this. I would suggest a Maven plugin to this end (which would take me a few hours at most) but since you're targeting Windows programmers, who tend to be allergic to command lines, a plugin for existing IDEs (Eclipse being the most likely) would also be a good idea.

    And on a more personal note: if-statements for command identification and handling? I would recommend using a Strategy pattern instead, leads to much cleaner code.
     
    thehutch and Vhab like this.
  25. Offline

    ZachBora

    I would rather say it's like adding a new pillar in the room and put a nail on it for your painting. They don't need to destroy other IDE.
     
  26. Offline

    JeroenFM

    Yes, that's a better analogy
     
  27. Offline

    Basaa

    Okay, I'm getting a bit annoyed now. You started a project, and you ask or our opinion. Then, we give you feedback that should learn you there is not alot of interest in a new IDE (which is pointless). Then why continue the project? Why not create a nice plugin that actually is usefull?
    Give us one reason why you want a complete new IDE rather than a plugin for Eclipse/Netbeans??

    When you ask for our opinion, learn from the feedback!
     
    Vhab likes this.
  28. Offline

    EdwinRophe

    I Think they are doing this project in part to learn and have some fun. I think it would be eorth while if it's easy enough for a none tradition developer to use it and get there feet wet. We all remeber writing our first "Hello World" app. This may be a "Hello World" app for beginnners.

    I personally have never done any java development (I do VB, Java Script, vb script, delphi and a bunch of really old ones). I downloaded Netbeans and was able to find my way around because I have dev background. I can see making an interface Specific to bukkit so a 10 year old could perhaps write a plugin might not be so horrible.

    On the Plus side you could force conformance to Bukkit Standards and ensure that commands, objects etc do not conflict with other apps written using this IDE by creating a central Database etc.

    I say run with it guys and see where it takes you
     
    thehutch likes this.
  29. Offline

    mindless728

    actually you couldn't do this since not everyone will use the IDE
     
  30. Offline

    Killie01

    this is the X'th message of this kind, we know we can't cath-up and i explained why we are doing this, and that we are (almost certain) not creating a plugin.
    now i know i asked for feedback, but this is getting annoying (nothing personal)
    i just hear this EVERY time:
    no need to create new IDE, just make plugin.
    if that is all you want to say, DONT POST!

    he said:
    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2016
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