[ ON HOLD] GROUPMANAGER+ - PermissionsBukkit Manager

Discussion in 'Plugin Development' started by Mrchasez, Aug 21, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    phaed

    This is starting all over again, and there is no one to blame but the bukkit team itself. They provided a standard for permissions but left out half of the equation -- the group functionality. And here we are again, each developer thinking their implementation is the easiest and splintering off on their own. At this moment we have Permissions 2.x's .getGroup(World world, String permission), PermissionsEX and bPermissions using bridges that do the same thing, and now we have the new dinnerbone recommended standard BukkitPerms' .getGroups(String permission). Are we really trying to add yet another one into the mix?

    We need a standard and BukkitPerms is it.
     
  2. Offline

    Sherryberry

    As much as I disagree about having so many different permissions plugins, I do have to say that I also agree that PermissionsBukkit is a hassle to use and I hated having to put : true after everything from the get-go. I miss my "*" nodes.

    I still, however, will use PermissionsBukkit, because as someone who has been looking into developing my own personal plugins, I see why there is such a demand for having one universal permissions plugin. And, all of my favorite plugins are switching over to it, so what can I do, really?

    But I think all the hostility and hate is so uncalled for. It's just a game, guys. We all come here to play one thing, and we all share a common interest here. Regardless of whether or not we disagree on one thing, we don't have to be so brutal to one another, right? After all, everyone's acting as though they're trying to bash one another's skull in over MINECRAFT. That doesn't seem a little silly to you?
     
  3. Offline

    MonsieurApple

    Please only respond to this thread if you have questions or concerns. Do not flame this thread saying 'Abandon This' in bold, red, size 20 font.

    While I do agree that we need to stop making more permissions plugins (GroupManager is dead, stop using it/trying to recreate it) there's no need to flame this user.

    You may offer your concerns, but please do it in a respectful way.

    @Mrchasez please do not bring back group manager. PermissionsEx has superseded it and the last thing we need is another permissions plugin with another API. Contribute your time to helping PermissionsEx instead. While you don't have to listen to this advice, I strongly recommend you do.
     
  4. Offline

    Zothen

    Im concerned, cos 1000x other plugins have superceded 1000 other plugins - no need to tell others what they have to do. PermEx had its chance to learn from a slick syntax. It will improve, for sure, but for know I need something that can do what GM could do!
    And Apple, GM is far from dead!
     
  5. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    I'd be happy with this plugin if it used the new superperms system. I think a big issue in the community right now is misunderstanding about what "superperms" means. GroupManager+ could 100% still use the system that they're planning for server admin management of permissions. What they'd be changing would be the way that their plugin interacts with other plugins. This would be completely seamless to someone who only runs servers, and would greatly improve the situation for developers. GM's style of config doesn't have to die, but the old way of talking to plugins really needs to go extinct to let the new, bukkit-based system take over. :)
     
  6. Offline

    Zothen

    The new superperms-system gets way to much pushed by the devs while its to far from being usable. Thats the problem right now! Beside that I would agree when I would know what direction superperms will go. We will see!
     
  7. Offline

    DrBowe

    Sarcasm? I honestly can't tell through text sometimes :p
     
  8. Offline

    bergerkiller

    Lol I start to doubt my own reply now... :p
    Wasn't sarcasm in the first place though. :)

    What would be the problem if multiple Plugins can ask for 'has' and let this 'has' system go through the grouping systems of the permissions plugins?

    Code:
    if (player.has("use.tool", player.isOp())) {
            //has permissions, if none are found, OP is used
    }
    Code:
    @Override
    public void onPlayerHasPermission(PlayerHasPermissionEvent event) {
            //let the permission plugin handle it here
    }
    I can't really see a problem here. If required let the player grouping stuff be done by the permission plugin.
     
  9. Offline

    Mrchasez

    Thank you, i will still release it.
    It will be supported for PermissionsBukkit/ SuperPerms.
    This will take a little delay, since we have to change a lot of code.
    It will be in the same easy format of GM though.
     
    Zothen likes this.
  10. Offline

    Zothen

    Yay, Mrchasez! Cant wait to do some testing! =)
     
  11. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Let me know how the superperms plugins are "far from being usable" please. I could probably help you.

    @Mrchasez While I may have a lot of criticism I am interested in all implementations of permission handling as I'm not just a dev but a server admin as well and finding a good way to handle permissions is always something I look for :)
     
  12. Offline

    Mrchasez

    We initially made this for my server, Which i do use.
    It works great so far, the reason for this plugin was for people who don't want to switch over, Even though this will support SuperPerms. No other plugin has the same feel and work ability as GM.
    I will make quite a few changes before releasing this now.
    I will make it offer things others don't, so its not just another permissions plugin.
    I won't discontinue it, but i realise that i need to make it offer more then originally thought.
    I thank you all for your input.
     
    Zothen likes this.
  13. Offline

    codename_B

    if you want the * node just op them
     
  14. Offline

    Mrchasez

  15. Offline

    Celeixen

    I suppose from a plugin developers perspective the new system is great And thanks for giving such a detailed answer to your opinion but i still think we should let this plugin's existence continue..
     
  16. Offline

    Mrchasez

    @Override
    public void onPlayerHasPermission(PlayerHasPermissionEvent event)

    That is basically what Permissions uses already >.>
    Change event to Bypass
    And you can add a class for *

    Node.java Extends PermissionsListener.java

    @Override
    so onPlayerHasPermission(PlayerHasPermission ByPass));
    public void (CommandSender Sender);
    private void SomethingElseHere("*")

    So the node * would bypass or override SuperPerms :D
    I know we are talking about different things, but you gave my a great idea
     
  17. Offline

    phaed

    I would like to know your reasoning your thought process. Why should this plugin be allowed to continue?

    Think about this, what is the end goal for GroupManager+?... As per the developer: "We know lots of people don't want to use BukkitPermissions or don't want to get used to a new permissions plugin, and that's why we are here". So ask yourself the question, is this goal a positive constructive influence to the bukkit community as a whole? The answer is no. The programmers who create the plugins using the bukkit API have always in the past and continue to this day wishing for a single standard they can code against for permissions and group functionality.

    This plugin's goal is an affront to the continued progress of the bukkit programming community. It is taking a step backwards when we should be going forwards. It is adding to the complexity of the very system we are trying to simplify. It is, flat out, a negative influence to the community.

    Taking the Nietschiean point of view, ignoring the pity you feel for this poor developer being told his plugin should not be released (I know it is hard, just look at his sad avatar's face, poor him right? *Slap yourself in the face*), realize that he is not the victim here, he is one using his pity and eagerness to get his way into releasing yet another plugin that will be harming this community more than it helps.

    Yes I get it Mrchasez you run a server and set up it just the way you wanted it back in the day in GroupManager';s hayday and have been adding on to the plugin and are now so far invested you cannot think of either understanding far less making the actual change to Superperms. Well I run a server as well, specs are pretty much the same as yours except that mine has dual sandybrige cpus 8 cores (not that they are being used anyways), and we do *not* allow cracked players (that's nothing to be proud of ya know). We average ~80 players on a regular afternoon. We have a 36k post forum count, with ~2500 registered members, not so long ago we had our forums erased by a hacker when we had 20k posts and ~2k members, so yea add that up. P.S. I visited your server, you calling it one of the 10 top rated server "in the world", a *bit* of an overstatement. But I digress, part of owning a bukkit powered server is being flexible to change, things change all the time and you have to be able to roll with it. We made the change to BukkitPerms not so long ago, left behind Permissions 2.7, yes all of our custom made scripts ran with 2.7 so we had to transition it all to BukkitPerms, was not so bad in hindsight. We left herochat, which hasn't been upgraded in ages, in favor of mChat. An almost perfect transition actually, no one noticed a thing. Looks nice eh?

    [​IMG]


    Well that there is mChat and the tags are from my yet to be released SimpleClans plugin,a full featured clans implementation that rivals factions, or bests?, which works with mChat and HeroChat and is PreciousStones integrated for protection. But I again digress from my obvious plug. Part of running a server is adjusting to change, its time you move away from GroupManager, adopt the new systems, learn to use them, you will see its not so bad, my server has felt the hit only slightly, one or two off plugins' permissions weren't working right and needed special attention, other than that everything went smooth. You should try the switch, you wont regret it. My server started as an hMod server, back a couple years ago, doyou know there are still people out there using hMod? Some servers never moved on, they could not adapt to change. Do not make the same mistakes.
     
  18. Offline

    Mrchasez

    I understand that, do you not see the whole point of the plugin now?
    It will fully support SuperPerms, The config will be set up SuperPerms style
    Command.Command: true

    This makes me wonder what your post is about, also my server has 5000 players, 2,800 (Registered) Members.
    Their is a difference, But this isn't about servers, i hope.

    GroupManager+ is GM, set up for SuperPerms.
    Their will no longer be a Users and Groups.yml
    their will be a Config.yml

    Where groups and users are, Just like SuperPerms.
    It is giving SuperPerms Ingame commands and functions. It will support most chat plugins, and i am working on
    one that will work well with it.
    So, Where is your point now?
     
  19. Offline

    poiuyt580

    So then isn't GM+ just the same thing?
     
  20. Offline

    phaed

    Don't think you get it, its not about whether GroupManager+ will support SuperPerms or not. It is the fact that it will add yet another groups implementation. People will have to reference your plugin directly to find a player's group. Its the "Group" in GroupManager that is what is adding on to the complexity.
     
  21. Offline

    Mrchasez

    No, It will offer all the userablilty GM had, /manuadd /mangaddp
    For SuperPerms. It will @Override Permissions.
    I am thinking of making a "*" node that works with this aswell.
    It will be quite different then SuperPerms.
    SuperPerms makes the permissions, This manages it in an easy way.

    How many Permissions Plugins are their for SuperPerms?
    What do you mean another? This will be the only one to do what it will do.
    SuperPerms is the standard, This is an Extension to it.

    You won't even need to have SuperPerms once you have this, The will be a bridge.
    It will act as though it is SuperPerms and tell other plugins that it is.
    So you will get all the functionality of GM+ and accessibility, But sticking to the standard.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
  22. Offline

    phaed

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This IS the problem. This is the very opposite of "Standard". You are creating a one off permissions plugin that will do it different than the rest, it is the last thing we need. And I dont even think you even know what you are talking about, no SuperPerms does not do groups, PermissionsBukkit does that. That is the groups implementation that has been recommended by dinnerbone. That is the only one programmers are going to code against. You are doing a disservice to anyone who ends up building their server on top of your system.
     
  23. Offline

    Mrchasez

    This will work WITH BukkitPermissions/ SuperPerms.
     
  24. Offline

    phaed

    If you can make that happen, well then it may not be so bad. But then what is the point?
     
  25. Offline

    Mrchasez

    You can think of this as "PermissionsPlus"
    to Permissions,

    It will add functionality, but not require to use BukkitPermissions (while using the same system)
     
  26. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    With superperms, no plugin should EVER be referencing another plugin for groups. Any implementation that does this is poorly written and designed to fail. I'd be really disappointed if this is the current case.
     
  27. Offline

    Mrchasez

    You wont need any other plugins.
     
  28. Offline

    phaed

    Then how are you thinking of being PermissionsBukkit compatible?


    Oh you mean like players in your permissions file? We got ~23k. *puts dick back in his pants*
     
  29. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    What I meant was that no plugin should be directly asking GM+ or any other permissions plugin for groups a user is in in the same style that they used to ask for permissions. :)


    And @phaed keep your epeen in your pants. My server's numbers stomp all over yours and I don't go around saying it in every post as part of my argument. (just this one)
     
  30. Offline

    phaed

    Found it funny that he called his server one of the 10 servers "in the world", just throwing a bit of perspective his way. I by no means believe my server to be anywhere near...

    [​IMG]

    ... the top 10 servers "in the world".
     
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