More information on the Minecraft 1.7.2 update

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Nov 15, 2013.

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    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    Things are progressing nicely towards our first development build of CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.7.2. Although this update did not provide or add as much feature-wise as previous Minecraft updates have, this is probably one of the more complicated and larger updates we've had to work with from a mod development standpoint. With "almost all of [the code in Minecraft] having been changed - be it little or big" (according to Mojang), there has been significant shifting around of code and logic - to the estimated tune of ~220k lines changed - within Minecraft, resulting in our slowest and most involved update yet.

    Managing expectations - information about our initial CraftBukkit 1.7.2 builds
    Five days ago (on November 10th) I sent out a tweet trying to describe what our initial findings were regarding the impact this Minecraft update has on the project but it's frustratingly very difficult to communicate everything I want or need to in 140 characters. Nonetheless, sending out tweets is still our best form of communication that doesn't push other important topics out of view (like the potential structure loss PSA).

    The tweet was meant to explain that while we will definitely have development builds, our analysis and evaluation of the update (through reading the code and following Minecraft feedback/bug reports from the community) has revealed that there are issues in Minecraft that may prevent us from getting anything stable or reliable out. This was purely meant to assist us with managing expectations as to the quality, stability and reliability of any builds we're able to give out.

    As for the 'issues we cannot fix' aspect of the tweet, this is due to the nature and policies of the Bukkit project: it is not so much that we are unable to fix the issues ourselves (though this can sometimes be the case), but rather that the issues present are not the project's responsibility to fix and, instead, would be better addressed by Mojang. While we do sometimes make exceptions if we have a really good reason to do so (like to fix a security issue), we try and avoid altering the way Minecraft itself behaves and functions. This is both a conscious decision as a project and a necessity, as too many changes to Minecraft's inner workings can mean significant increases in the complexity and amount of work required for the update process.

    It's not so much that we choose not to fix these issues, but rather that we need to be fully conscious and aware of the impact doing so could have on the update process and our day-to-day maintaining of the project. If the fix for an issue touches too many internals within Minecraft, for example, it usually makes the update process significantly more complex, resulting in (what could be an avoidable) increase in the amount of time it takes us to update. As much as we'd like to fix every issue we come across, doing so would mean updating to new Minecraft versions will take even longer than they currently do.

    This is why we have the minimal diffs policy (a policy which eliminates unnecessary changes to the Minecraft code), it results in a speedier and less buggy update for everyone. Although it undoubtedly limits the developers in our project, I think you'll agree that it's a worthy sacrifice and limit to impose upon ourselves in order to ensure that the downtime of your server between updates is as minimal as we can possibly achieve.

    If we were not personally responsible for updating the core of our project, we'd have much more freedom to experiment. As it is, however, the Bukkit project handles updating, development and the maintaining of both a plugin API (Bukkit) and a Minecraft server mod (CraftBukkit) in order to produce the server you all know and love.

    To be clear:
    • There WILL be development builds; we're still working towards getting our first one out.
    • Due to significant changes in how Minecraft works, it will take us a while to get our Bukkit API updated. Hence, it is highly unlikely that all the plugins you are using will work on our initial development builds.
    • There will MOST LIKELY be promoted builds, but they'll be lower quality than you could usually expect from us due to issues we can't address.
    What does updating CraftBukkit involve?
    To give you an idea as to why this update is taking longer than usual, I need to briefly touch on what our update process involves. Every time a Minecraft update is released, we have to go through a repetitive, time consuming and dry multi-step process.

    A simple breakdown of the process is as follows: decompile the server -> learn the new names (they change with every update) -> figure out how they apply to Bukkit's naming system -> learn what changed/what's new in the update -> update the changes we make to the server to support Bukkit -> get the code to compile -> fix issues that come up.

    Since we're working with a code base that is unfamiliar to us, we can sometimes find ourselves having to jump back to a previous step. For example: we may come across a piece of code that we're not familiar with and once we're able to figure out what it does, we realise that we've named something incorrectly which we then have to go back and fix. It is this fluid and unpredictable aspect of the update process that makes it difficult to come up with a communicable ETA or any progress/status updates.

    Though this process may seem inefficient or ineffective, this is the same process that we've used and improved upon to get all of our updates out (even our fastest ones) over the 3 years the project has existed. Bear in mind, the overview provided here barely touches the surface of our update process and is intended to give you a remote idea as to what we have to deal with for every update. This brief and simplified breakdown of our 'steps' does little to explain the varying level of difficulty or complexity of each step, for example.

    How can I help?
    The best way to help us out is to get involved.

    If you're a server admin: once we have our first development build out, we'd appreciate any testing you could perform and any issues you can report. Please bear in mind that development builds are unsupported and should not be run on production servers.

    If you're a plugin developer: once we have our first development build out with proper API support, we'd appreciate if you could test the build out and report any missing or broken API to our bug tracker.

    If you're looking to help us out with the update, you'll have to work towards that goal by getting involved in other aspects of the project first. Due to the sensitive and extremely team oriented nature of the update process, we require that you build a relationship and demonstrate your commitment to the project before getting involved with updating will benefit the process. As the update process is incredibly repetitive and mundane, intense commitment is a key requirement for the team.

    We know this update is taking longer than usual but I assure you we are working our hardest to get it done. Thanks for your patience and continued support, it makes a huge difference and really helps us push onward!
     
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    gabessdsp

    Thanks for the update! :)
     
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    tina4fun

    Good work and good luck to team to complete it like a sonic speed :)
     
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    DerBlockBuilder

    I've been waiting since the update, and honestly, I think I've been rather patient. I am, however, now dying to play the update. My question is, if I run my server on vanillla 1.7.2, will it smoothly transfer to the bukkit dev build when it is released? I've heard there are some complications with corrupted files when transferring.

    My community is getting rather impatient, not saying bukkit caused this in any way, as I know they are working hard, but I was hoping to learn whether or not vanilla would be a quick fix, and I could transfer to craftbukkit when time comes using the same map?
     
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

    Using the same map shouldn't give any issues. But you better be sure and create a backup
     
  6. Offline

    DerBlockBuilder

    timtower
    Thank you for the response, I just wanted to calm any concerns I had about the tranfer, as I've heard some pretty bad stories about people who have done it.

    And, of course I will backup my map and files when I'm preparing to do it, not going to take any larger risks.
     
    timtower likes this.
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    Gravity Retired Staff

    Cleaned up offtopic / spam / flaming posts. Remember that this topic is about information on Bukkit's update to 1.7. Please keep your conversation relevant and civil.
     
  8. Offline

    WavyWonderz


    Perhaps this link will help:
    http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Plugin_API
    Watch this video too:


    Aka, it's still under development and will come out eventually. I heard somewhere January 2014
     
    danw3st likes this.
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    ccrama

    WavyWonderz, that's going to be another fun update for Bukkit...
     
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    chasechocolate

    Great work as always, team!
     
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    Bobcat00

    That was Minecon 2012. At Minecon 2013, Jeb said they have "high hopes" for 2014, but "no promises". So more like January 2015, if you're lucky.
     
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    Madam Questing

    It would be super helpful, so we can help you as much as we can in the smallest amount of time, to have a list or some ideas on what you want us to look for and specifically test. Haphazardly we might find some things, but I can go down a list one at a time if there are things that you know what you want tested. I would happily dedicate as much time as is needed, all my small amount of knowledge, and my server to help the community. There are alot of hopes and dreams resting on this; just tell me how I can help the most.
     
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    Krustymk

    Probably all kids that are being impatient, in need of a good spanking lol
     
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    PunJedi

    Had to get this off my chest... (sorry for tl:dr)

    This entire game is fueled by ego. Think about it. Sure, single player is fun for a bit if you haven't ever played it, or happen to be all excited about the latest updates and whatnot. The popularity rise for this game though, is ego.

    When you have spent hours, days, weeks, or months creating something in any media format, you want to share it with your friends, your family, maybe even, the WORLD!!!! Seriously though. I want folks to ponder this enigma.

    Markus makes a game that, although inspired by other types/genres, somehow stands above and beyond the existing voxel based games. It grows steadily in popularity through its inception. Over time it becomes popular enough to garnish the attention of developers, budding programmers, experienced veterans looking for a new outlet, and so on.

    This also breeds the Multi-Player aspect of the game. Suddenly, an isolated world that only you or those near you could see and appreciate, is opened up to everyone else. The awe and wonder of finding new areas, gathering resources, building the most epic castle or expansive redstone machines, could now be shared with friends and strangers.

    As the game and its modding community grew and adapted, the popularity for the game began to skyrocket. People can say what they will but Mojang would not be anything of the powerhouse indy development team they are, if it had not been for the Multi-Player aspect being added. Why? Again I say , ego.

    I admit that I am as much a part of that ego as anyone. I joined an SMP server specifically looking to become part of a community or group that we could share our experiences, interests, ideas. I didn't want to walk around in a massive world filled with nothing that truly interacted with me. Eventually my ego didn't like how it was being managed and I made moves to purchase the server. After almost 3 years of running it, I can say that I have been greatly humbled. Not by Mojang and its efforts, but by the Modding Community in general and those who dedicate so much time for so little, for so many.

    This brings me to my point about Bukkit, MineCraft, and the Owners/Admins who run the servers.

    Many of us who run servers are fully aware of the volatility of running a server. Some of us do make a bit of a living doing this. Personally I consider the management of a large Community, the actual focus of my effort. Running the server itself is simply a matter of good tuning, safe network habits/setups, and monitoring any issues. It isn't that difficult at all, we all know this.

    What IS difficult is managing the Community / Group that we build for ourselves. THIS is the 'one' thing that I truly wish Mojang would acknowledge. Were Mojang actually to focus more on working with bukkit, which is a very large reason why MC's popularity has risen *check the stats for yourself if you don't agree*, then they would inadvertently also be aiding the community aspect of the game. By making for a much smoother update transition you halt the insane flow of texts/responses/tweets/blogs that all inevitably follow an update.

    By WAITING a darn minute to release an update, you let those who have helped you gain your rise to power, get a chance to breathe and let things settle into some sense of stability. The going rate seems to be about 6 months before Mojang decides to disrupt the entire genre with some fanciful update. I am not bagging on the team, I am just saying that it's methods, flow, and structure are seriously disjointed.

    I am a 40 year old man suffering from Fibromyalgia among other chronic issues, so I am home most of the time now. I have worked for many different companies in many different states. The one thing I can say I learned from all those years in regards to ANY business, is that you need consistency, consistency, consistency!

    If you don't have this, you lose your clients faith and trust in your ability to manage the changes, and most importantly, you leave the client feeling like they matter nothing to you.

    With these long and obfuscated updates being churned out faster than the Bukkit team or others can keep up with, you leave your following feeling a bit jaded. That is why I hope to see avoided in the future, and a better more transparent interaction between Mojang and its entire Community.

    If you are still reading all this then let me say thank you, and I will summarize my point.

    Mojang needs to start addressing the aspects of us, the community of people who help drive the popularity, teach the new members how to play, direct the developers on what should be coded, fixed, modified.

    It makes no sense to me why a company with such a following would leave its community so disabled and unhinged during every update. The only thing I can think, is ego. Markus doesn't like his 'baby' being messed with, yet he forgets that a lot of the new updates and changes to the game were brought on by you, the plugin developers with your edgy and amazing ideas.

    You can't incorporate many other peoples ideas constantly and hope to maintain a sense of "I made this" anymore. MineCraft is as much the communities project now as it is Mojang's and it's time they start acknowledging this if they don't wish to be perceived as just another "greed driven" company.
     
    Inscrutable, almazio1, ccrama and 2 others like this.
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    DHLF

    After any of those (important?) minecraft updates I used to look at the newest Bukkit development version.
    I have not seen no progress lately so I thought "Whats going on?? Nobody working? Server burnt down?"
    Or even: "Damn! They may be working but they locked us out from the dev-versions because of the usual many *friendly* complaints about broken stuff.."

    Thank you EvilSeph for sharing this important information.
    Many changes needs many fixes so we have to be patient.

    To make this clear: I am not attacking anyone of the team but no news about the project may lead to lots of (false)rumors and therefore I wish you would have posted this earlier.

    Nevertheless take your time and thank you again for all of your work!
    And for being politely in spite of many strange .. demands here.
     
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    zeeveener


    That was when Seph was on Mojang's team. He is no longer on it so there is no pressure to keep working on the API regardless of whether or not he actually did anything on it.

    Dinnerbone is on the team, but literally does F.A. in regards to Bukkit
    EvilSeph WAS on the team. No longer.
    Grum is still on the team I believe, but has little to no relations to Bukkit if I am not mistaken
    Tahg I have no idea.

    Anyone else that is on Mojang from Bukkit was kept quiet and I have no idea.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2016
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    Bobcat00

    There are zero (0) current Bukkit devs working for Mojang.
     
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    oxmox74

    wtf? whats minecraft without multiplayer or with vanilla-multiplayer? nothing! why doesn´t mojang support the bukkit-team in any way? unhappy!
     
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    JMiahMan

    Well if you look at MCP Searge works for Mojang and MCP (no where related to Bukkit though) still doesn't have a official release out for 1.7.2, so some how I dont' think it matters. Most likely there's just a lot of work involved due to the changes and I haven't seen any of the other projects say much more about it. You can't expect Mojang to do all the work for 3rd party projects along with working on their own API. Most likely Mojang has helped where they can, but from my perspective it doesn't seem to matter if you work for Mojang or not, things aren't getting done any faster.
     
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    VoidingNixx

    I like that line. ;) But lets face it, server admins do not really have much of a choice. RB's are few and far, and by the time we see one, the next version of Minecraft is usually out. ;p
     
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    loldude1964

    Nice Job Team Keep Up The Good Work! ;)
     
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    Smooshman12345

    Please just tell us like is it one week two weeks?!?! PLEASE JUST SAY HOW LONG YOU THINK!
     
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    Rexel

    Hah I wouldn't blame them, notch can use his millions to actually put back into the game instead of only having dinnerblah and nub_ run the game with the lame updates and changes towards this carrot on the stick mod api.

    mojang need wake up a call, takes the money how they are doing things, still waiting for 1.7.3 with added twitch carp is just delaying instead of the bugfix it should have been soon after finishing that minecon con
     
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    General

    After seeing the amount of changes Mojang made in 1.7 (and not liking any of them), I've decided "Maybe I should just give up hope for the future and not update anymore."

    I think it would be far more helpful if they updated more sparsely, say about once/twice a year, with bigger shifts in content than what they're doing now. After all, quality beats quantity. Though I suppose the constant updates could have something to do with money, or some other incentive...

    I think it's a bit harsh that Mojang has been called "stupid" a lot. I see it more as "shortsighted" or actions that weren't well thought out. Sometimes it's a bit hard to see the implications of one's actions when one is being the actor, if that made any sense.

    Anyway, chances are, by the time there's a recommended build out for 1.7.2, Mojang will have already released 1.8 containing more aesthetic features we don't care for. Who knows what useless content they'll add next? Maybe they'll call it the "food update", or the "stone update", or even the "pig update".
     
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    Mrs Creeper

    Thanks for the update. Keep the good work! Love your work and all has. ^-^
     
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    ccrama

    Honestly, why is everyone all over Mojang about their "API"? Sure they could do more to help out Bukkit, but what happens if they release an API that will, most likely, compete with Bukkit? Most plugins would probably not work between the two, and that would cause a ton more work for Bukkit, or render the project obsolete. I personally think they should stick to what they do, releasing moderate updates every few months, and letting the rest of us catch up to their release.

    Sure, it sucks for a while, but they have a new launcher with version switching, snapshots to aid in development, and they are STILL ADDING FEATURES. This game could have been left in the dust when Notch stepped down, but now look at what has come. 15 new flowers, horsies, and colorful blocks (I say that sarcastically). But they have also added tons of cool stuff for you guys, like server list improvements, LORE IN CHAT (very cool and useful), server textures (was removed in 1.6), and new resource pack system. Although the release has been slow, I would bet my pants that 99% of you have not donated or made any improvement on the lives of the volunteering developers of Bukkit. I am guilty of that too, but I try my best not to complain about updates, and if your players are really suffering that much, they aren't real players. If they honestly left your server because of the update, they werent players you would want to have on anyway.

    Just my thoughts, take what you want from this!
     
    racecar56, JaguarJo and Gr8Gregg like this.
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    gameblaster64


    They should just buy Bukkit and rename the project "Official Minecraft Multiplayer."
     
  28. Offline

    StealthBravo

    No, just no in every possible way.
     
  29. I'm sure if the minecraft api were to be released it would make things easier rather than harder for the bukkit team. Many of the things they would normally have to decompile the code for and figure out will be right out in the open with easy api hooks. It would be great if the two teams were to share code and use bukkit as the baseline for the minecraft api. I think that's a pipe dream though. Vanilla smp is kind of a joke unless you're just looking to play with a couple friends, any servers looking for real functionality turn to bukkit or similar projects. Mojang would be wise to reach out to bukkit again and share their source code with them. It would make everyone's job a hell of a lot easier.
     
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    Deathmaul51

    Are you just updating the first post? Sorry, I am a little behind on updates as I know you are all busy. If you are just updating the first post could you post at the very very top what date you updated it on. Include time as well if you are doing it multiple times a day. I mean, if you want to that would be most appreciated. I just am not sure how often you are posting.

    Side Note: Take a year to update, I couldn't care less. The work you do is beyond words and I am more then greatful for the time effort and dedication you put into Bukkit and CraftBukkit. I can only imagine how much you have already given into the development of this project. I would be honored to help in any way possible and wish I could get more into it. I have used bukkit for 2 years now and I can't imagine trying to run a server without it. It is near impossible to keep a server running without Plugins as players get bored when its the same thing over and over again. I am shocked that so many people have pulled together to make such an awesome thing as bukkit.

    Again, thank you for all you do.

    -Deathmaul51 - Tim
     
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  31. Offline

    markdf

    [quote="

    Side Note: Take a year to update, I couldn't care less. The work you do is beyond words and I am more then greatful for the time effort and dedication you put into Bukkit and CraftBukkit. I can only imagine how much you have already given into the development of this project. I would be honored to help in any way possible and wish I could get more into it. I have used bukkit for 2 years now and I can't imagine trying to run a server without it. It is near impossible to keep a server running without Plugins as players get bored when its the same thing over and over again. I am shocked that so many people have pulled together to make such an awesome thing as bukkit.

    Again, thank you for all you do.

    -Deathmaul51 - Tim[/quote]


    Agree with you completely Tim, unlike so many other abusive and pointless messages here that are not worth the effort of even acknowledging.
     
    racecar56 and Deathmaul51 like this.
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