More information on the Minecraft 1.7.2 update

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Nov 15, 2013.

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    Things are progressing nicely towards our first development build of CraftBukkit for Minecraft 1.7.2. Although this update did not provide or add as much feature-wise as previous Minecraft updates have, this is probably one of the more complicated and larger updates we've had to work with from a mod development standpoint. With "almost all of [the code in Minecraft] having been changed - be it little or big" (according to Mojang), there has been significant shifting around of code and logic - to the estimated tune of ~220k lines changed - within Minecraft, resulting in our slowest and most involved update yet.

    Managing expectations - information about our initial CraftBukkit 1.7.2 builds
    Five days ago (on November 10th) I sent out a tweet trying to describe what our initial findings were regarding the impact this Minecraft update has on the project but it's frustratingly very difficult to communicate everything I want or need to in 140 characters. Nonetheless, sending out tweets is still our best form of communication that doesn't push other important topics out of view (like the potential structure loss PSA).

    The tweet was meant to explain that while we will definitely have development builds, our analysis and evaluation of the update (through reading the code and following Minecraft feedback/bug reports from the community) has revealed that there are issues in Minecraft that may prevent us from getting anything stable or reliable out. This was purely meant to assist us with managing expectations as to the quality, stability and reliability of any builds we're able to give out.

    As for the 'issues we cannot fix' aspect of the tweet, this is due to the nature and policies of the Bukkit project: it is not so much that we are unable to fix the issues ourselves (though this can sometimes be the case), but rather that the issues present are not the project's responsibility to fix and, instead, would be better addressed by Mojang. While we do sometimes make exceptions if we have a really good reason to do so (like to fix a security issue), we try and avoid altering the way Minecraft itself behaves and functions. This is both a conscious decision as a project and a necessity, as too many changes to Minecraft's inner workings can mean significant increases in the complexity and amount of work required for the update process.

    It's not so much that we choose not to fix these issues, but rather that we need to be fully conscious and aware of the impact doing so could have on the update process and our day-to-day maintaining of the project. If the fix for an issue touches too many internals within Minecraft, for example, it usually makes the update process significantly more complex, resulting in (what could be an avoidable) increase in the amount of time it takes us to update. As much as we'd like to fix every issue we come across, doing so would mean updating to new Minecraft versions will take even longer than they currently do.

    This is why we have the minimal diffs policy (a policy which eliminates unnecessary changes to the Minecraft code), it results in a speedier and less buggy update for everyone. Although it undoubtedly limits the developers in our project, I think you'll agree that it's a worthy sacrifice and limit to impose upon ourselves in order to ensure that the downtime of your server between updates is as minimal as we can possibly achieve.

    If we were not personally responsible for updating the core of our project, we'd have much more freedom to experiment. As it is, however, the Bukkit project handles updating, development and the maintaining of both a plugin API (Bukkit) and a Minecraft server mod (CraftBukkit) in order to produce the server you all know and love.

    To be clear:
    • There WILL be development builds; we're still working towards getting our first one out.
    • Due to significant changes in how Minecraft works, it will take us a while to get our Bukkit API updated. Hence, it is highly unlikely that all the plugins you are using will work on our initial development builds.
    • There will MOST LIKELY be promoted builds, but they'll be lower quality than you could usually expect from us due to issues we can't address.
    What does updating CraftBukkit involve?
    To give you an idea as to why this update is taking longer than usual, I need to briefly touch on what our update process involves. Every time a Minecraft update is released, we have to go through a repetitive, time consuming and dry multi-step process.

    A simple breakdown of the process is as follows: decompile the server -> learn the new names (they change with every update) -> figure out how they apply to Bukkit's naming system -> learn what changed/what's new in the update -> update the changes we make to the server to support Bukkit -> get the code to compile -> fix issues that come up.

    Since we're working with a code base that is unfamiliar to us, we can sometimes find ourselves having to jump back to a previous step. For example: we may come across a piece of code that we're not familiar with and once we're able to figure out what it does, we realise that we've named something incorrectly which we then have to go back and fix. It is this fluid and unpredictable aspect of the update process that makes it difficult to come up with a communicable ETA or any progress/status updates.

    Though this process may seem inefficient or ineffective, this is the same process that we've used and improved upon to get all of our updates out (even our fastest ones) over the 3 years the project has existed. Bear in mind, the overview provided here barely touches the surface of our update process and is intended to give you a remote idea as to what we have to deal with for every update. This brief and simplified breakdown of our 'steps' does little to explain the varying level of difficulty or complexity of each step, for example.

    How can I help?
    The best way to help us out is to get involved.

    If you're a server admin: once we have our first development build out, we'd appreciate any testing you could perform and any issues you can report. Please bear in mind that development builds are unsupported and should not be run on production servers.

    If you're a plugin developer: once we have our first development build out with proper API support, we'd appreciate if you could test the build out and report any missing or broken API to our bug tracker.

    If you're looking to help us out with the update, you'll have to work towards that goal by getting involved in other aspects of the project first. Due to the sensitive and extremely team oriented nature of the update process, we require that you build a relationship and demonstrate your commitment to the project before getting involved with updating will benefit the process. As the update process is incredibly repetitive and mundane, intense commitment is a key requirement for the team.

    We know this update is taking longer than usual but I assure you we are working our hardest to get it done. Thanks for your patience and continued support, it makes a huge difference and really helps us push onward!
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    EvilSeph quit working at Mojang.
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    So, are you saying, that for the dev. build, most plugins will break? What will happen when the beta build is out though, will outdated plugins still work? These are the plugins im mainly concerned about not working:
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    Thank you for this news post! It answers many of the questions I've had. This update sounds like a huge undertaking for the Bukkit staff. I appreciate all the work you guys put in to this and I look forward to testing the dev build when it becomes available.
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    Thank you for this update, hopefully it'll be out soon :)
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    Don't overwork yourselves.
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    Nice, can't wait!

    On my computer, I don't see any ads on this page at all - are you sure you don't have any malware on yours?


    Show Spoiler

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2016
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    Could anyone answer my question?
    Ok, so I have been running a vanilla server ( 1.7.2 ), is it possible to use the same maps if I just filled out the same seed or will the map generate differently?

    Anyway, keep up the good work bukkit!
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    Oh I did not know that. I'm sorry to hear that actually.
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    Thank you.
    I appreciate a lot.
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    I know I wasnt sure if the update was ever coming outuntil now
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    They said that any plugins that broke in the past when a major upgrade occurred will likely break on the initial "dev" releases...more specifically, those that rely on the bukkit api. Rather than guessing, create a copy of your server and prepare it for a test run. When bukkit 1.7 is released, try it out. Check the server log for the usual errors and make note of what fails. Then go in-game and see if the plugins that did not specifically say they had a problem are still functioning. Once you compile a list of what has issues, check the plugin dev pages to see if they have made any updates (won't likely be released versions on bukkit dev on day 1) which might be found on the continuous improvement source locations.

    Yes. Bukkit 1.7 will "be" the 1.7 version of Minecraft server. It won't be a protocol hack like Spigot. Spigot is still really 1.6.4 but allows 1.7 clients to is not really 1.7.

    Yes, you can use the same seed and the land generation should be identical. You could even copy over your world folder. This is exactly what I am doing. I am researching which seeds I will use and have even started work on spawn in the 1.7 worlds.

    JaguarJo likes this.
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    Thanks very much. Then I will probably start building my spawn aswell.
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    Why Mojang always harm Online Minecraft Communities/Servers...
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    I already built the spawn for my new 1.7 server..... In VANILLA. It takes forever to open MCEdit... but I made a spawn.... and a resource pack with a panorama featuring this spawn...... Can't WaIt for the update!
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    Thanks for all the work and take the time it need.

    Good Job!
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    What will happen with the bukkit API?
    Will the new Minecraft system be made compatible with the existing API
    is the API going to be made brand new/absolutely rewritten for the new Minecraft system?


    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2016
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    My impression from attending Minecon is that Mojang thinks it should be a single-player game.
    Black Hole and Europia79 like this.
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    Being so new to the community you might not realize that there was a time when Vanilla is all we had. Bukkit was also not the first server mod; Mojang definitely didn't make it easy on Hey0 when he was working on hMod nor will they make it easy on the Bukkit devs. If this was meant to be easy, they wouldn't have to deobfuscate the source code.
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    because i wait for Bukkit builds, i'm always the last to update - so for me it is single-player, most of the time . . .
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    Wow, just wanted to say that you guys and your hard work is what keeps people playing Minecraft, and i bet if the Minecrafters didn't have you guys to just make amazing things such as the bukkit server! That is the best that has hit Minecraft, and that is what makes it like a thousand times more fun! When you have some friends to play it with! Anyway just wanted to say keep up the awesome work! and thanks for supporting the Minecrafters Crazy Demands! I hope so much that you guys don't stop( ) and just keep doing what you do! Although some people don't give a hoot what you do to help us all, there is still some grate gamers that really appreciate what you do!
    Love From The Bunnii <3
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    Time frame perhaps?
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    Don't you hate that? And thank you guys for all your work!! This is gonna be amazing, when polished!
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    That wouldn't be possible to do. Bukkit is a system that is put on top of the existing server code, and has tons of moving parts dependent on one another. Not to mention that, if possible, this would take tons of time to put together, time that the team could be spending on the actual update.

    Keep in mind:
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    I only ever criticized mojang, they really don't get enough flak for the stupidity of how they do things.

    Players on my server with complaints about minecraft are redirected and encouraged to blame mojang for screwups with this game as they are the ones responsible for most the changes that break things, while at the same time never improving what they break in there own updates.

    Back in 1.3 they broke a plugin called .. great little plugin for editing signs directly again after they had been placed in the sign gui, with no need to use commands which is only a lot more typing. It hasn't worked since 1.3 broke it.. the developer asked for changed to be made so he could fix the plugin nothing since.. that was 2012 there is no way for the plugin to work again still.

    And what have mojang done to improve the sign gui, it still sucks I mean you still have to deleted what you've written to change something because there is no way to move cursor position. Sure there still other bukkit plugin commands to edit signs or redo them completely.. Its been like that for years though because complete morons like mojang break things and then never do anything to fix it themselves.

    Honestly they do not get enough flak at all, plenty of praise for what they do though, its like hey we added blocks, and here is upside down sheep.. morangs.
    Merest and DerBlockBuilder like this.
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    Thanks a lot you guys, keep up the awesome work!
    I donated to the site in hopes my contribution helps. ^_^
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    The way you worded that, it almost seems as if Mojang decided 'Hey, look at this plugin, let's break it'. The reason things break is because they make additions and changes to the codebase of THEIR game in the interest of improving it. It's also why the bukkit update is taking so long; because there are so many changes in the workup to a proper API and support for modders to make their addons to the game less buggier and whatnot. Bukkit isn't like Office for Windows, which are both developed by the same company, it isn't developed by the same people with proper support from Mojang (mostly). Bukkit is essentially another mod for Minecraft, be it a popular one, so Mojang have no real obligation to support the project. While I heard that the bukkit team does get some input and info about the multiplayer side of development of Minecraft, I believe Mojang could send an unobfuscated version of their server software to the team to speed up the update process and keep the community mostly happy.
    I reiterate; Mojang isn't going out of their way to screw everyone and their content over, rather improve the game and make it more stable for the future. This all comes down to the 'If you don't like the game, shut up and don't play it' thing.

    One last thing, props to the bukkit team and their efforts to keep the project alive and running, it's evidently a hard and long process.
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    I'd say in pure ignorance they aren't even aware of a lot of mods and plugins that have been built and ruined by there 'interest of improving' I really doubt they have clue.
    I dunno why you even bothered replying you aren't telling me anything I'm not aware of already.

    If you say so, this proper API is a fairy tale, and I already wish no one ever bothered asking mojang to do it because its very clear they are not competent enough. That was over a year ago, the progress towards any of those goals are still not apparent, they still release that vanilla server obamination. Mojang should have hired more people for there lowly minecraft goals last year not late this year. Between MCP, Forge, and Bukkit and perhaps a few others, plugin developers and those wanting to mod minecraft for server or client have been doing fine working around this lack of official API from mojang, infact I'd say the height of modding popularity both singleplayer and multiplayer for minecraft has passed and I doubt it will ever be as good as it once was before there updates started causing so much frustration both for players and developers.

    Maybe its a fanboy belief of yours that mojang do no wrong, but time and again they have put updates out that aren't really adding that much value compared to all the work from third party mods that need major updates to fix again. The iterative crapshot updates, followed by mod breaking updates and then further point updates to fix more bugs..From what is basically just jeb and dinnerbone, it just isn't good enough and comes off as unprofessional, like they basically know that the vocal twit herd won't really get sick of it or give them any flak.

    It's all well and good working on the game engine and refactoring code for future changes.. but if they are really wanting to change so much with the game for 'the better', most of it not even being visual changes things players will notice just under hood stuff, they really should keep it back and do a major release when its properly finished.

    There should not have been a 1.7 update this bad, they should have kept it back and released it with whatever the goals of 1.8 are next year.
    Inscrutable likes this.
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    Mojang has been working on it for almost 2 years, and they have nothing to show for it. It will be at least another year before it's released.
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    Valid point, I've always thought this. Bukkit is by far the most favoured style of server to play on (and run), why don't Mojang involve them more, in fact just absorb them into the company entirely, scrapping the vanilla servers that come out so that a stable Bukkit server can be released at the same time as official MC updates??

    Releasing new MC updates before Bukkit are able to start or come finish to releasing a new build quite clearly fucks over a great deal of fans and server admins, through the lack of donations in the periods of downtime, and players that are anxiously trying to get back on their server they have become so loyal to.

    Sure, I'm all good for patience I can wait as long as possible but I'm just saying.... This would be so so much more beneficial for everyone if Mojang were to work closer with Bukkit before releasing updates. MC updates are cool and that but they actually are quite frequent as it is and most players spend their time on servers rather than single player these days. I think I'm right in saying that most veteran MC players that have owned the game for a considerable amount of time generally only play single player when they have mods they want to use - don't even start me on how much mod developers get screwed over T_T

    Atleast that's something they are working on with the modding API (Even though they promised that ages ago...)

    Well anyways that's my rant over hahaha xD Feel free to disagree guys... These are just the views of an avid Minecraft and Bukkit fan, and hardworking server admin :p
    PunJedi likes this.
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    It's been suggested countless times, mojang just don't give a duck.

    They did eventually make some attempts to only release the pre-release a week before chucking out the official release forced onto players accounts where most just went ahead and the updated when there existed no downgrade option before the new client launcher, where client modding got another major shafting all in the name of progress towards there modding api. Of course mojang bug testing and fixing is always pretty low so even the pre-release was pointless as there would be another bug fix release soon after to break it all again.

    Now they just don't even bother with the new client launcher, I'm pretty sure mojang consider 1.7 there pre release to there next 1.8 world breaking update , and any progress made by others to get there own mods working against 1.7 will just be a good laugh for them, while they soak up all the twit feed glory of adding some useless feature or block. Makes me wonder how come there are still developers making mods for the game.
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