Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by vubui, Sep 5, 2014.
Real men get drunk now...
It feels like hmod's downfall all over again, Wolverness: heyhey0, bukkit isn't ready, modding api isn't ready.
I would like to interject one item into your statement, with regards to the minecraft server code, bukkit made a decision to include proprietary closed source code in the craftbukkit.jar with out permission in non compliance with the LGPL and the GPL at the creation of bukkit, that was not a choice made by mojang, it was made by bukkit. Bukkit could have just as easily done what forge now does and have the minecraft server.jar downloaded as a separate .jar to the root folder and not include it in the craftbukkit.jar, then this problem would not exist. It is not mojang who created this problem, but it is mojang who seems to be left holding the bag.
Bukkit, now owned by Mojang, is currently distributing Bukkit with proprietary Mojang code, which Mojang will not license under GPL, as required by the GPL licensed contributions to the Bukkit project. Because of this, Mojang, the current owner of the Bukkit project, is distributing unlicensed copyrighted works.
The curious part is that Wolvereness knew this all along. Assuming for the moment his claim is correct that including NMS means the craftbukkit project is violating the GPL license on his contributions, this condition has always been true, and he knew about it the whole time. The inclusion of NMS is not a new thing, and it wasn't a secret. Every piece of code he contributed to the project, he was doing so with the knowledge that they were violating his license.
Besides the fact of bringing his current motives into question, I'm not sure you can really sue somebody for copyright infringement when you were the one that gave it to them, knowing all along that they were infringing. Is there such a thing as "copyright entrapment"?
Did you read the link? This could give him a stronger case, because that means he was explicitly giving them a license to do that, in addition to the GPL. That also means he can yank that license away from them.
vubui ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Y U NO Appeal DMCA Takedown Request?
That looks like the claim made, there are some details to be covered, though.
For practical reasons the GPL part is also uncertain, though it might also apply for LGPL - i am not a lawyer but from what i read it's not certain and it seems to be too complicated.
They probably have. Or, as usual, they need to make a collective decision and have a big meeting.
It's too slack - it's about CraftBukkit and that CB contains mixed MC code with CB code, while the MC license voids thje ?GPL/LGPL. I am not sure if this needs that CraftBukkit is "pulled" to GPL by
a) contributed code being under GPL (license bombing) or...
b) only concerning the distribution of the binary: it's distributed alongside with the GPL licensed Bukkit jar.
I stil haven't seen a convincing answer, but i guess there are even more aspects that the lawyers checked out or still will be busy with. In case of b) one could probably scrap the old jars and set up CB to not contain Bukkit and distribute them independently ofeach other, however then locking down the source repositories doesn't make too much sense, so i assume it's something else.
Ownership does not create liability or responsibility. I will again state, bukkit made a choice 4 years ago. Bukkit is distributing the software, mojang is not.
So lets start with the basics: CLARIFY WHAT MOJANG REALLY OWNS.
Mojang can own the name and if it is legal in Mojangs AND the people's they hired jurisdiction the code contributed by that people - they still cannot relicence it becuase of GPL.
Mojang also definitely DOES NOT own any other contributions by anyone else and they cannot legally enforce their EULA retroactively.
Whether the decompiled java classes count as independent or mojang's sourcecode would be a court's task to determine.
Basically - as far as I understand it - mojang killed bukkit for now as they lost the community's trust and noone besides Mojang employees seem to be willing to work on 1.8 minecraft, while Jeb or other Mojang employees legally cannot contribute to Bukkit, as it would force Mojang to disclose ALL their server code.
Mojang is not willing to do so basically Mojang had to kill bukkit as they did not want to fade into open source.
Anyway what crappy company competes against its community by selling hosting services (Realms) - not sure, if that is legal in the EU as it would be an abuse of its monopoly as the developer company anyway. (another thing a court would have to determine)
So as far as I understand it minecraft 1.7.x is the last bukkit version for now as contributions by people cannot legally be uncontributed, but noone is willing to do anything for bukkit 1.8.
So bukkit is dead - RIP (I bought minecraft because of the mods and bukkit)
But its time to move on - there are other voxel games - ones that are fully open source, have better physics AND are much more performant.
gg mojang just managed to kill minecraft
PS: as the new community admins/overseeers say, I cannot not even talk about alternatives to minecraft/bukkit, so do your research by yourself: google sandbox InfiniMiner clone open source
There are many projects seeking contributors
"I would think that Wolvereness violated the "good faith" requirements of the DMCA - seeing as how it is his code that is infringing, and that he put that code there, he is equally capable of removing his code as well. Seeing as he is one of the individuals responsible for maintaining the code, he is effectively reporting himself for a DMCA violation he created, for a codebase he helps maintain." - icemagetv
Important things I have read here: (ordered by sanity and priority, whoever cares)
1. Players loves when new content are added to the games they play. I assume we all agree on that;
2. The original master primer plus fundamental unique official minecraft server released by Mojang does indeed lacks several (if not a whole resourceful set of) tools to stay exposed to *public* in a safe way; (I literally hate white lists, ban lists and whatever other means that are there to *protect* the thing just because it can't *prevent* the regular gameplay havoc it naturally provide.)
3. The only way to bring these two pieces together in a *enjoyable* way is that what we call *modding* these days. The only reason why the *big picture* exists is just because players (people who actually brought the right to spend their time for fun) decide what they want to play, NOT your freaking original official whatsoever ideals coded in a simpleton game;
4. Again, shit *always* happens when people plot some crazy strategy and just aim for the realms of *money*, and YOU (Loyal fans who truly *decide* the colors) obviously will pay the price;
5. Antagonicly complementary, we all want that you both please keep doing that great work.
Well that's just dandy!
You missed one point: Bukkit was shut down by Evilseph, Mojang wants to keep it going... If they won't do that, bukkit will die anyway.
There are a few points I couldn't wrap my mind around.
Repeatedly, you said Wesley has no right to do something of this nature partially due to the Bukkit/Craftbukkit project not using Minecraft Server code. (Right?)
This seems paradoxical. The code may be deobfuscated and modified, but it is still Mojang's code. I can't deobfuscate your code, modify it, and redistribute it as my own. Doesn't seem to make sense.
If this is not what you mean ,can you please clarify and elaborate further? I have a hard time wrapping my mind around GPL/LGPL License and its effects?
You also discuss Wesley not having any right to do what he did in regards to the DMCA takedown. I disagree. He is not trying to end the open-source(ness?) of the Bukkit license, but he is enforcing his right. Please take a closer look at the GPL.
I think you have to look at the faults of Mojang on this. While Wesley performed an action that alienated a lot of people, I don't think your company is innocent. For example, look at Jeb and Dinnerbone's tweets. They are rather sardonic and condescending. They aggrivate me with their arrogant attitude in their tweets. And I know I am not the only one who feels this way. Had they been more friendly and cautious in their responses, the events may have turned out differently and maybe Wesley wouldn't have done this. (I realize this is a lot of conditionals).
I don't think this post is very accurate and very informative. It only states what many of us know, and it also spreads a lot of misinformation that looks bad on you. Mojang is not innocent of this and while perhaps Wesley should not have done this, it was in his right to enforce the LGPL of the Craftbukkit project, and he was not trying to end Bukkit. I don't think it's sabotage, I think it's standing up for his values.
So can someone just tell me,
When is bukkit going to come out to the public so I can use it on my server?
I don't want to bore my players with vanilla minecraft.
Thank you Mojang for clarifying your intent to try to keep the bukkit/Craftbukkit community alive.
Despite people nitpicking each little phrase, perhaps we could all work toward finding some way to make things work instead of trying to blame people for not doing one thing or another.
Also, regardless of anyone's motives or sinister plots or bank account balance, there are two facts that are indisputable:
1. Mojang was going to try to keep Bukkit updated after EvilSeph tried to pull the plug
2. Mr. Wolfe has successfully made Craftbukkit inaccessible to everyone who wants to use it for the time being
People can speculate on motives, hurt feelings, dirty dealings, copyright violations, etc. until they are blue in the face. When people or organizations take actions that affect other people, those actions are what matter.
I do not have a 1.8 multiplayer craftbukkit server because of something Mr. Wolfe did, not something Mojang did.
Perhaps we should all focus on concrete realities rather than theoretical legal arguments.
Where were his values when he was committing the crime he's whistle-blowing on right now? He contributed just as much as the others in copyright infringement by including Mojang's code in CraftBukkit.
So Mojang has been stealing community mods for years - since like 1.3:
* Ender-Chests were originally chest keeper signs.
* villager trading was done by some awesome dude and his plugin: rebalance villagers
* world border was stolen from the mod world border.
* world editing were POORLY stolen from worldedit.
* horses were stolen from Mo'Creatures (imho)
So basically fsck you mojang for stealing community mods and then shutting down the original GPL source from your stolen stuff!
Mojang didnt shut it down. Wesley did (ex bukkit developer)
He and noone else knew bukkit was owned by mojang.
As it was reveled last week, mojang to some extent owns bukkit.
He and many others now feel betrayed by mojang and srsly fsck them and their greed!
They landed one hit: minecraft - every other attempt at doing any games failed - so now they are trying to grab the last money there is, by effectively killing the modding community - and srsly also their normal community.
From their fsck'd EULA:
This could be interpreted as: all your maps are also belong to us.
And thats definitely not something that is acceptable in ANY WAY!
RIP Bukkit, RIP minecraft
Knowing or not knowing, it doesnt matter. Wesley committed the crime of copyright infringement.
I second most, but i rate it unclear if there would be 1.8 out by now if the Bukkit team was updating "as usual". Just because it might simply take longer . After all the issue might add a somewhat negligible delay to it all, despite of the uncomfortable general situation - could as well turn out that CraftBukkit had been a dead thing from the start with Mojang not being able to do anything reasonable about it ... remains to be seen.
vubui Your company has been distributing LGPL software with the Minecraft server for over two years via Bukkit.org. Be it the official software or a recompiled version, you've set a precedent and will have to own up to having re-licensed an NMS derivative under LGPL.
When it comes right down to it..if bukkit ends people are gonna either blame Mojang ,Wes or both and no one will have gained anything. Minecraft will lose the majority of its players, past, present and future, and Wes will be considered a self centered crybaby. I think this all needs to be sorted out so no one loses. It really doesn't make either side look very good as it is. IMO the only real victims if bukkit goes down will be the communities, the servers and the plug in makers that have done nothing to deserve it except support both sides.
they did by their EULA.
You do not have an 1.8 bukkit server BECAUSE NOONE IS WILLING TO WORK FOR FREE FOR MOJANG.
That has nothing to do with one major contributor feeling fscked over by mojang.
Look kid, this is incorrect. By ownership of copyright, the author owns the code. Please review §201 a-c of the US Copyright law if you have any questions. In your example, all software companies typically have an IP clause in their contract which is further defined in §201 c of the said copyright law, which is why Mojang would "own" any contribution made within the company. I've signed one for every company I work for, it's a very standard document. Regarding Wesley Wolfe's case, he signed no such document, he included his own license to the code, and arguably as noted earlier might be seen as under false pretenses in any binding contract.
Introducing analogies isn't really your strong suit. In the DMCA case, I didn't say they're at fault, I said they can't distribute it. What I am saying is that Mojang's recent practices were incorrectly decided and handled.
CraftBukkit and Wesley Wolfe's code can be seen as 2 different entities. Assuming you acknowledge that the copyright law is correct in seeing Wesley Wolfe's code is correctly his, it was not to be distributed with non-GPL or LGPL code, which is what his current claim is. Please let me know if you feel anything I said was incorrect.
Arguably this is Bukkit's doing. When Mojang acquired Bukkit, it is arguably Mojang's fault for not stopping it's owned project from violating copyright law. Statues of limitations under the copyright act is 3 years from when the infringement is discovered. When it is discovered is up to the court to decide.
How do you know he "knew" this? From posts, a large chunk of the Minecraft community didn't.
The purchase transaction defines weather Mojang is liable or not. All we know is that support/permission and the transaction was done 2 years ago. Mojang hasn't released details, more Mojant miscommunication yay!
Respectfully, I still believe Bukkit and Wesley Wolfe are two separate entities in this matter. Creating a car, and having the car be used in a car robbery are two separate things. Wesley Wolfe's contributions are to a project. The compilation of the project is a separate process done by some internal process that I don't have details on.
You are probably right about the timing, but at least someone would be working on it!
Please read up on ownership rights and responsibilities. Bukkit is and always has been a separate entity, mojang is not responsible for actions taken by bukkit, unless they are in control of the day to day executive actions. They have not been. They do not have to own up to anything. In fact, at this point, they may very well give evilseph and the rest of you, your wish, bukkit may very well be dead. No more craftbukkit, GO TEAM BUKKIT!
Separate names with a comma.