Mojang and the Bukkit Project

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by vubui, Sep 5, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    dibujaron

    There are hundreds of mod and plugin developers (myself included) who would gladly leave their jobs and lives to go work for Mojang, probably for dirt cheap. If you don't have enough people, as this message seems to indicate, you really should have absolutely no trouble hiring more.
     
    Inscrutable and krisdestruction like this.
  2. You degrade an official Bukkit front page post as "blog post", do you prefer to read it in the local newspapers?

    Ok, i almost wanted to correct you to 5th-7th grade, because so many in the community are that age.
     
  3. Offline

    DamnHippo

    This is complete bullcrap, Mojang you have a small staff team? That was your own choice at Minecon 2013 someone asked Notch how much money he makes? I believe he replied "More than I need. I don't know the actual amount someone takes care of that" Seem's like Mojang is just for the money not the content. If bukkit 1.8 isn't out by the time that my server billing time is I'm done with minecraft. Mojang you screwed the game you greedy bastards.
     
    krisdestruction likes this.
  4. Offline

    roke58

    vubui

    I have a suggestion that may work, I don't know if anyone has already suggested this but why not REQUIRE those who want to code plugins or download a bukkit jar file to agree to a terms of use agreement where they HAVE to agree to certain things in order to download the jar.
    This seems like a great solution to me. However I may be missing part of the picture, so please correct me if i'm wrong. :)

    I really do hope this gets solved soon!

    Incase I'm not clear in the above statement here's what i mean in steps..
    1.) Create an account on bukkit. Inorder to create the account you have to read and agree to the Terms of use stating that you understand Mojang still owns it's rights to Minecraft and it's code. And that you will Never claim ownership of anything created using said code. (could also add in there to agree not to distribute either, and any other terms Mojang wants to add.)
    2.) proceed to download the jar file
    3.) Back to normal?

    -Sincerely,
    Roke58 Owner of Konigroke.com
     
    Europia79 likes this.
  5. Bukkit never dies, it'll stay GPL forever.
     
  6. Offline

    antiroot

    roke58 The problem isn't so much the terms of usage agreement or EULA, it's that because CraftBukkit includes non-LGPL code statically, the license that the source code for CraftBukkit is released under has been violated. In order for the license to not be violated CraftBukkit needs to depend on Minecraft as a linked library only which can't happen because the server doesn't provide an API to talk to it as such, which is why it's required to be unofficially modified and incorporated into CraftBukkit code. It's very messy to say the least.
     
  7. Offline

    roke58

    antiroot
    Well then Mojang should modify their stuff to Fit bukkit because I'd bet Bukkit gets them over half of their accounts purchased. I for one would shut down my server if we couldn't use bukkit. I don't know anyone who wants to play vanila mc... But Dinnerbone did say he was updating it to 1.8 BUT then he can't give it to us because of this? am i right?
    -sorry if I'm coming across as rude, this just really angers me that Mojang did this.
     
    Europia79 likes this.
  8. Offline

    antiroot

    roke58 Your view is shared by many and I'm sure all parties are factoring in what the majority of the community is saying. However Mojang has no obligation to tailor to the needs of Bukkit unfortunately, there's hope that they will pull through and find a way to continue the Bukkit project as they said they would try to do but when legal stuff like the DMCA issue come up it makes it more difficult to accomplish. Mojang did not issue the DMCA and I'd imagine they would have preferred that it didn't happen in the first place, but there's nothing that can be done except wait for the dust to settle.
     
  9. You can't simply wash your hands of this. When an oil tanker has a leak, the company that owns it can't go "we didn't authorize that!" and get away with it. The leak happened under the management and ownership of the company, making the company responsible.

    The same happened here. It does not matter who committed it. It does not matter if Mojang had a hands-off approach to Bukkit/CB. The decompiled Minecraft server code was released under a GPL project, by Mojang, as it owns the Bukkit project. This makes the decompiled code legally licensed under GPL.
     
    krisdestruction likes this.
  10. Offline

    krisdestruction

    Except decompiled code has the exact same functionality to it. I cannot confirm the legality of this.

    vubui
    First it's sad and disappointing how Mojang has acted they way they have. No one here likes having decisions forced on them - but what choice do we have?
    It is Mojang's right to refuse authorization. However the fact is that Mojang is a party involved in the DMCA takedown request and it is responsible for it's own actions. What you say is your own responsibility.
    Absolute BULL-SHIT. You claim that full-time Mojang employees do not have the time to support bukkit, yet it is clear that those with other full time jobs are able to contribute to Bukkit on their free time. It is a well known fact that you have resources at your disposal, so stop usng Mojang mismanagement and lack of spending on developers as an excuse.
    [​IMG]
    It stopped becoming a community driven project when Mojang started pulling strings on things that directly interfered with Bukkit. It was only when Mojang's image was threatened that a representative of Mojang (you) spoke up for it. I cannot say what your decision will be, but I truly suggest Mojang stops running interferance (EULA, Bukkit, DMCA) with Multiplayer.
    Mojang want the project to maintain its independence, yet you guys stepped in to veto EvilSeph's decision. You want to prevent unjustified claims to Mojang's Minecraft code, yet this would not have been affected by server monitization EULA related changes. You want something, yet you do not act accordingly.
    Your right ends when it starts conflicting with the copyright law.
    You do not have my understand, my most shallowest sympathies, or support.

    Thanks for reading.

    krisdestruction
    Fellow User of Minecraft
    krisdestruction
     
    roke58, ams2990 and OriginalMadman like this.
  11. Offline

    smbarbour

    I think you are misinterpreting that. Specifically, it would be an addition to the Bukkit API specifically stating that CraftBukkit is allowed to include the Bukkit API without requiring that the server code itself be licensed under the GPL.
     
  12. Mojang is rich, 28 * 1000000, That is 28 dollars (Worth of game) times that by 10 million+.
     
  13. Offline

    nickey_dee818

    im confused now is bukkit coming back or is it completely done?
     

  14. Nice rant.

    Now, for the big kid moment, Mojang should just simply withdraw, give ownership of bukkit to whom? or what?, I know, a non-profit organization, that would work. Then bukkit will be code frozen at 1.7.10 by the dear leader evilseph. bukkit is done. the DMCA can be removed and downloads for everyone who wants the last build of bukkit at 1.7.10.

    Job done, great job everyone, GO TEAM BUKKIT!
     
  15. Offline

    Viciouss

    On the one hand there is Mojang, owning Bukkit and not paying a single dime while Bukkit ultimately led and still leads to a huge number of sold games and a shit ton of money being paid to the company. It's clear that they wish to save Bukkit from being shutdown by someone without having a means of stopping it as it would probably cut down earnings by a lot. As an independent plugin API is (hopefully) being created by Mojang, I can also see why they do not want to interfere with Bukkit. There is apparently something going wrong here and it should have been raised as a topic to discuss after it was known that Mojang owns Bukkit.

    From this perspective, I absolutely agree with the DMCA being valid and that it is the right of Wolvereness to do so, the problem I have right now is the timing and reasoning behind this whole thing that were brought up by him. Why file it just now and not a year ago? The infringement was known for quite a while and just after Mojang released the information of owning Bukkit this happened? It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to be honest. If he was just after what he wrote in his claim, it would have made sense to claim it earlier and there were endless discussions about the topic on the forums. He must have known about it. I'm not sure if it is true that he just wishes the server being open source. Especially as there is no official statement from his side but the claim itself so who knows? People are scattering rumors but nobody knows this exactly. He answered some questions in IRC but the only thing he said was something like "the server being open source would bring it in line with the license" - this is not a justification for his doing, it is just a statement of how it could be resolved. It does NOT state anything about his intentions. If there is any official statement from him, please let me know. I couldn't find any.

    Right now, I'm quite sure that a person with his skills and knowledge cannot be serious about Mojang releasing its server software as it ultimately contains almost the whole Minecraft code and it would be a kick in the nuts for them to release it. There are probably only a hand full of companies on earth who would do this under very special circumstances. This leads me to the assumption that there is more behind it than just a simple wish for the source being available. I'm not yet sure what exactly it is, plain destructiveness, the perspective of agreeing on selling his code to Mojang for a huge pile of money or just because he can do it and he is bored with Minecraft anyway. Maybe he also is serious about the source code. I do not know and I do not want to judge anyone without knowing, just throwing it in as an option. The other things have been discussed thoroughly.
     
  16. Offline

    Weirdaholic

    Mojang is "rich"... yes... for an indie game developer.
    But it's not as rich, as you think. Most of that Money is used for paying bills, (and all that blahblah, what someone already said), saved for bad times, and mostly for game-development.

    Mojang is not EA or Ubisoft or SquareEnix or Nintendo...
    They know that Bukkit is important for Minecraft, they won't let that die. They're not dumb (maybe except für vubui, who looked like someone, who doesn't know anything about the game. I think he just thought, it could be a good idea to say something about this problem. But he's just a COO, not a dev or a lawer... Sorry, vubui!).

    But please stop about talking, how bad Mojang or Wolvereness is... both uses their given right to protect their codes.
    Both are right, but this will not give any solution.
    We all should calm down. It's better for the brain, the mood and this whole situation.
     
  17. Offline

    zLemonProz

    Am I the only noob here who is wondering what on earth everyone is arguing about. xD
     
    jthort and joehot2000 like this.
  18. Offline

    Koeb

    I am getting tired of reading that thread :p
    It also sad, that there are so many mojang-hater comments.

    Maybe their twitter replies with "Mojang owns bukkit" were not the best ideas, however if I got it, they only try to avoid that bukkit is dying. They don't want to overtake others work and sell it as their property (Bukkit = open-source).
    I am convinced that without their intervention bukkit would be definitely dead.

    Moreover, i don't think that Mojang is so greedy.
    This sounds envious and like: "They should hire 20 new employees because I want the official plugin api to be available next week." And why should they have hired people for helping with bukkit? A voluntary open source project?
    It's right that bukkit has become essential to minecraft as long as the plugin api is not ready. But mojang was extremely unprepared as evilseph suddenly closed the bukkit project. They probably thought bukkit would still last for further years without their participation.

    Maybe I expressed something not that way I wanted to but I'm not often writing a text in English -.-
    After hours of reading this thread I simply had to get rid of that unspoken thoughts...
     
  19. Offline

    antiroot

    In order to have the DMCA removed, the violated code would also have to be removed and then Bukkit would go under code freeze at a point before 00703_1.1-R1 according to the DMCA notice

    Edit: This is not my point of view, just following the logic bastion put forward
     
  20. No you are not. Just to clarify, there are 3 camps, the mojang supporters, the bukkit supporters and the I don't really care I just want my server to run please supporters.

    Group 3 is the group getting screwed the worst, but group 1 and 2 really don't seem to care about group 3.

    Edit: I should actually say group 2 doesn't really seem to care about group 3, group 1 may actually care about group 3, I don't really know.

    WW could retract the DMCA and assign his copyright over to the new non-profit that would own bukkit. Problem solved we can all use 1.7.10 forever! yipee!

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2016
  21. I want to use slime-blocks. And so many things are getting in the way of me doing so. That's my only qualm.
     
    bastion likes this.
  22. Offline

    Clancy

    We want Bukkit 1.8 <3
     
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  23. Offline

    krisdestruction

    I agree, Forge isn't as organized as Bukkit IMO.

    I don't believe you because when you try, you get a 404.
    I am part of Group 2 as I support Wesley Wolfe's decision and I am in Group 3 as well as I do want my server to run. I am supporting Group 2 because it is the right thing to do.
     
  24. Offline

    pilotdan1985

    I have been running several minecraft servers for 3 years. I have over 6000 player joins on my servers over this period of time. I have an average "regular" group of players of around 250-300 people all over the world. I host and maintain my server hardware out of my house. Its a very expensive piece of hardware worth thousands of dollars, just itself.
    I completely volunteer all of my own time and money to maintain my servers. What you guys did with the EULA in 1.8 made it a lot harder to keep my servers running. I did not like what you guys did at all. You made it 10x harder for me to keep my servers running. However, out of respect for Mojang and my love for Minecraft, I made the changes to comply with your new EULA.

    Let me change the subject here for a second. The vanilla version of minecraft does not allow enough customization for safety factors to protect my server. Being an "open" community. Anyone can join my servers at any time. One single person with a hacked minecraft client can destroy thousands of hours of work in just a few minutes. 90% of everything I do to mod my servers is to protect myself, and my community, and keep the game fun for people. As it stands right now, I can not update my servers to 1.8 because I have no way to protect myself.

    Bukkit offers a lot of aspects to the game that are completely necessary to maintaining a fun/ fair community. We need different levels of staff ranks and permissions, we need complete protection, we need to allow players to protect their own builds, we need tools that allow us to log who does what, we need tools to allow us to see who may be cheating.

    When you come out to the public and say things like "you don't have the time" or "there is no obligation" for you to do anytyhing, it is EXTREMELY upsetting. Dinnerbone found time to customize the code of the game out of his own free will just to make mobs appear upside down when tagged with his name. He could have been using that ammount of time to code in something useful LIKE WORLDGUARD. Whatever is going on between mojang and bukkit needs to be resolved asap. Not for me, but for YOU. No server owner in his right mind would ever even entertain the idea of running a vanilla Minecraft server without more protection. This means without bukkit, any update you put out there will be a waste of time because no one will play it without more protection.
     
  25. I just want to know what happens to Bukkit now.
     
    asofold likes this.
  26. Offline

    Koeb

    Well, then I am between group 1 & 3. I am a server admin and primary i want to see the bukkit project continued. It seems to me that mojang wants to update bukkit to 1.8, whereas i am unsure what the remaining bukkit team wants to do.

    And i think wesley isn't working on updating to 1.8. (So I'm automatically not on his side. xD )
    I'm understanding his reasons, but it seems childish to me. It's not mojang selling his work. They are just trying to update bukkit. When contributing to an open source project then he should not bury that project when leaving.

    I'm not saying mojang is without fault..

    Seems that nobody knows that.
     
    asofold likes this.
  27. Offline

    Jackobo

    Spigot get their download page on github unvailable because of DCMA like Craftbukkit on download pages. Cauldron cannot be downloaded too. What else ? It's the death of Multiplayer on Mojang if they continue in this way :(
     
  28. Offline

    Zupsub

    I don't get your point.
    CraftBukkit contains code made by Wolvereness. He has licensed his code under GPL. That means, it must not distributed with non-GPL code. Since the minecraft server (which is distributed with Craftbukkit) is proprietary, Bukkit had never legal rights to use Wolvereness code. (says Wolvereness). So at this point Mojang can do nothing to continue the work on bukkit... The only thing they could do, would be releasing the source of the minecraft server under GPL.
     
    ams2990 likes this.
  29. Offline

    krisdestruction

    Koeb I think everything you said in that post indicates you're exclusively in Group 3. Group 1 believes Mojang is right in it's claim.
     
  30. They can't do anything due to dmca and lawyers in charge - the outcome is yet uncertain.
     
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