Improving the quality of the community

Discussion in 'Community News and Announcements' started by EvilSeph, Oct 25, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    A lot of work has gone into building this community we've all grown to know and love but it hasn't been without its problems and issues. From time to time we're met with the unavoidable need to make a difficult decision in order to preserve the friendly, welcoming and mature environment we've carefully crafted together over the many months the Bukkit project has been around.

    I am one of those people who places great value on constructive criticism and freedom of speech, so it is very disheartening for me to have to make a decision that goes against those principles but sometimes these types of decisions are necessary. Lately we've been seeing an increase in the amount of unacceptable content from several of our community members, both valued & respected and general members. While I'd like for us to be open and flexible as much as we can, there will always be a line that needs to be drawn at some point and, for some people, we've reached it.

    It does not matter who you are or what you've contributed to the community. If you've decided to go the path of someone who provides a negative influence to the community and just wants to cause trouble, you're out. I would rather lose you and whatever contributions you may have made than let you drive our community to the ground.

    As I have to make these tough decisions, I know it is inevitable that some people will step up and decry our actions, call us nazis or say we're against the freedom of speech but I assure you, we are none of these things. If you'd like for the project to improve we need something tangible to work with. If you have any feedback for the project, how we do things or anything for that matter, we'd love to hear about it and will take it to heart if you communicate it in a tactful, mature and constructive manner.

    It took a lot of work to get to this point and we're not going to throw it all away. In response to the increase in problems we've been facing as a community, we are planning to increase our staff (perhaps have sectional moderators) and how quickly we deal with issues that come up. Until we've done this, please feel free to report any violations of our Terms of Service and we'll deal with them swiftly and fairly.

    Thank you for your continued support and help in building our community.
     
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    I'm happy to see the community thrive and not be dragged down by negative attitudes.
     
  3. Offline

    lukegb Retired Staff

    I like this, despite being on holiday.

    I shudder to think what my IRC bouncer's away message queue looks like...
     
  4. Offline

    MsInscrutable

    Nothing to see here, move along...
    It saddens me when a site I have come to rely on for sensible plugin development becomes an example of heavy handed moderation.
    It disgusts me when censorship becomes a convenience.
    One does not solve a problem by having the people who point out the problem redefined as the problem. If posts containing dissenting opinions are to be deleted, then I afraid you are just making more work for moderators.
    I understand the work and time that goes into a site like this, and how the effort can grind down any sympathy for critics of such a frustrating labor of love. I also understand that more moderators are being recruited, and I applaud this action, it can only help to improve things around here.
    I regret that my first post to a site I truly appreciate has to be of this nature.
     
    Kain888, M1sT3rM4n and ShyGuy718 like this.
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    Jadedwolf

    I'm really glad to see this actually. Community members need to follow the simple rules we have.
    So many people take for granted what they have been given with bukkit as a whole and forget that it can all go away.
    I have always respected the bukkit team for there hard working in making this what it is today and i"m very glad to hear this.
    <3 @EvilSeph
     
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    Archelaus

    @Inscrutable (yeah, we can check for dupe accounts) the community asks for a higher level of moderation on submissions, bukkitdev and release (inactive ones, and the sort) how do you expect us (a moderation team of volunteers and doing it in our freetime) to manage this without being strict on the community? If we focus our efforts on fixing a problem, people will find a new one. We cannot please everyone, and people need to realize that.

    People complained Fill was taking so long and in the end they got BukkitDev. BukkitDev is essentially Fill, maybe a few things left out and a few extras. People are boycotting it because it's Curse. The moment we announced it, we got "nah, not using it. It's curse". These people haven't even tried it yet. We opened a section for you to share your concerns about BukkitDev, we got half-assed reasons such as "forums are better", BukkitDev has forums. BukkitDev has forums for every plugin which is submitted, therefore, it's better than the forums. It allows devs to manage their workload in a modular way.

    People need to remember. It is not your right to have Bukkit, it's a privilege. We do not charge for Bukkit, therefore we are not paid. Stop acting like you pay us and like it's your god given right to have and use Bukkit.

    Congrats on your "first post", by the way.
     
  7. Offline

    Inscrutable

    Dear Mr @RightLegRed
    It is not my business to tell my Wife what she can or cannot post.
    If you have a problem with her opinion, do not expect me to express it for you.
    Whilst we share many opinions (amongst other things), you are replying to her words.
    ...
    Personally, I *did* pay for Bukkit, thusly: I liked what I saw so much (and felt a nagging guilt) that
    when I stopped paying for commercial server hosting, I donated to Bukkit. I put up or I shut up, sir.
    Bukkit is a magnificent work, and worthy of much honour. And fierce debate amongst some...
    ...
    When the dust has settled, I hope that you find you haven't shot your own feet.
    I do sincerely wish you the best of luck in your reconsidered approach to moderation.
    Sincerely,
    Mr Inscrutable
     
    ThatBox, Kain888 and fidosdead33 like this.
  8. Offline

    MsInscrutable

    Sigh.
    Gee, thanks, @RightLegRed
    I've been told many times there are no women on the internet.
    I wonder how many get accused of being sock puppets for their partners?
    Sorry, but you appear to be laboring under the delusion I am not what I appear to be.
    I have been content to lurk, read up on plugins and learn from other folks posts where the problems can occur with a bukkit server for some months now.
    I don't code plugins, just use them and I like to know how they work. I thought it would be nice to have an account here to say thank you to some of the developers whose work I find useful.
    I don't need to code to have an opinion on how the site is run, however, and that is what I posted above.
    I understand your suspicions, but if you persist in calling me a sock puppet, then you are acting like a muppet.
     
  9. Offline

    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    If you're going to be self-righteous about anything, you need to know both sides of the story. Take a bit to look at all of the offending member's posts and you'll clearly see we had no choice but to ban him. We didn't ban him because we disagreed with his opinion, in fact we've spent many hours, many days and many months showing him that he has the wrong idea through presenting solid facts that everyone else agrees with. We banned him for twisting our words every time we responded to him, for doing things without a care for the impact it would have on the community and for wasting our time. Every single issue he's brought up, we've politely addressed and he stops for a day or so, then he comes back with a rewording of the same bunch of issues and it quickly becomes clear that he'll continue until he gets what he wants, regardless of if he is right or wrong or if it is best for the community or not.

    Up until we rejected some of his work from being added to the project, he was a mature, decent individual who I'd stand by and vouch for. The moment we told him we wouldn't accept a specific bunch of code, he changed completely. Why do you think it took us so long to ban him? I stopped my staff from doing so, thinking he'd realise that he's being childish and clean up his act... All facts considered, this just looks to me like someone who doesn't like it when they don't get their way.

    Things would have been different had he been cooperative, actively listened and provided constructive criticism, but all he decided to do was troll and insult my staff and I will not stand for that.

    That same person you are defending continues to bypass our bans on him. You give us a reason to ban you and leave us with no choice, we have to ban you. You don't get to pick and choose how wide your ban is. You shouldn't have insulted my staff, instigated flamebait, disrupted the community or broken the rules in the first place. If it's clear that your being in the community will not do it any good, no amount of appeals will get you unbanned. You've stepped over the line and now have to live with the consequences.

    Once you're banned from the community, that's it. You are no longer a part of the Bukkit community, so your contributions - no matter how big, small, many or sparse - are no longer supported by you, as you are no longer able or welcome to do so. To think otherwise is madness. I will no longer give anyone special treatment because they've contributed to the community, it just leads to more problems.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2016
    Daniel Heppner likes this.
  10. Offline

    alexanderpas

    I don't know how much has been filled in after this thread, but the profile of @MsInscrutable (previously known as @DarkMother AFAICS) gives some clear signs:

    Gender: Female
    Occupation: Crazy cat lady and partner of Inscrutable
    About Page: Monkey to Incrutable's Organ Grinder, learning the joy of MC plugins over his shoulder. Asks too many questions...

    Also, there's a very clear sign on @Inscrutable his profile posts: Posted on Oct 26, 2011 at 9:02 AM
    http://forums.bukkit.org/profile-posts/11021/
    Old Geezer Obsessed by Minecraft. Partner of DarkMother.

    Take note here that the first post of @MsInscrutable was on Oct 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM which is over 2 hours after @Inscrutable posted that message on his own profile.

    Also, It would be nice to first contact them in private, instead of instantly posting publically.

    NOW, BACK ON TOPIC!!!

    My response to @EvilSeph:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31M_MdSVxV8

    I'll be sure to keep on reporting issues on the forums, and constructivly sharing any issues I have with either Bukkit, BukkitDev, the forums or anything else.
     
    Kain888, M1sT3rM4n and Inscrutable like this.
  11. Offline

    EvilSeph Retired Staff

    This thread is meant to be about our move to stop giving contributors special treatment and to start really enforcing the Terms and Rules we have for the community but has, instead, turned into a discussion about BukkitDev or other aspects of the Bukkit project and thus resulted in a lot of offtopic posts.

    This announcement was made to show we really do care about the community and will not let people bring it down through their misbehaviour regardless of if they are a long time contributor or just an ordinary member and so has served it's purpose and will now be locked and cleaned of all irrelevant discussion.

    We are working on several other announcements that pertain to other aspects of the Bukkit project, including BukkitDev in the near future.
     
    Zothen, OrtwinS and Evenprime like this.
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