I hate Mojang More and More Everyday...

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by lecraeman, Apr 12, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    Ribesg

    No I mean, just save the sign location somewhere associated with the UUID. What's on the sign is still the player's name, but doesn't actually mean anything. All your internal logic would be about the UUID. You can update the sign's playername whenever you want: join, interact, chunkload... The player doesn't see any difference, and that's what counts.
     
    lycano likes this.
  2. Offline

    asofold

    I'll corrupt people with actual competence about what is an actual problem with the change. You are off topic and at best trolling.
    That makes sense, however that would be having database-based plugins for every little thing, such as lifts or entity-protection, as i described above.
    Edit: Also a problem is the consistency question (~trust whom you are sending something with the sign), it's not solved by a local database only.
    It also does not solve the same question asked for commands referencing offline players - it is all possible to store name + uuid, but to be sure what's the case on commands it becomes much more complicated, e.g. trying to add an offline player to your plot or send money. Another difficulty is if you try not to have plugins that handle things differently (either user interface or consistency!).

    You will have to start coding everything yourself or redo your server for big parts, in the hope to find fitting plugins - of course cutting away features is a possibility, some of the big plugins will "somehow" update, and with a little luck they are either using similar means to handle stuff, or players just get used to it, so one can live of WorldGuard + Factions - does not apply for me , i will have to do a lot of re-coding.

    Also consider that simple plugins like sign-based xyz is needing a database handling with your approach - that means previously simple plugins will now be complicated in nature, a lot more bug-potential, lag-potential.

    For those who don't care anyway it won't matter - a player lost everything, so what. (Edit: Could spare the lottery plugin, hehe. But it needs changing names around all the time...)
     
  3. Offline

    Qwahchees

    I've disliked Mojang for this since day one of hosting servers. They update their code and break everything without even thinking about the servers that keep it alive. Minecraft itself is fun, but it get's old, no update will change the fundamentals of how Minecraft works, no amount of blocks will make SMP anymore fun than it already is.

    So what does the community depend on? Servers, yes the mini games, the rpgs, everything, yet they do things like UUID's to break the whole damn system. One day they'll make a change that'll destroy everything.

    Name changing to me, IMO, is stupid. You are who you are, you picked it, live with it, or pay for a new account. Soon we'll have kids running around with websites in their names and goofy things.
     
  4. Offline

    lycano

    Qwahchees i do not get your point. You can already buy a new account and name yourself GoBuyWhateverCom
     
  5. Offline

    Qwahchees


    It contrasts the Steam system. If players were to make one account, because they had to pay, they more likely wouldn't name it something stupid cause they know it'd cost $25 to change, and they would lose whatever progress they made on servers. Now? They'll change their names to stupid things.
     
  6. Offline

    lycano

    Qwahchees sometimes you just don't have the luxury to choose a "perfect" name because its already taken.

    Also just because something costs money does not prevent someone from creating "studid named" accounts since for some 25 dollar is nothing. I believe that there is a limit for every person.

    Anyways IF they do it correctly such things will most likely not happen.
     
  7. Offline

    Mike1022

    Actually, this part:

    "Factions: All hope is lost...abandon ship!"

    Is a good thing. Something needs to be done about factions servers.
     
  8. Offline

    lecraeman


    What does that mean? Something needs to be done?

    I am assuming you're saying they're bad somehow? That makes no sense. Faction servers are VERY popular.

    Also someone already has a UUID version of Factions 1.6 prepared anyways :D
     
  9. Offline

    ZanderMan9

    This is irrelevant to the thread, but as the topic has been brought up, I'll go ahead and say that there needs to be an alternative to factions. It's a good idea, but there are a few problems with it. I'll probably make a thread about this or something, and edit this comment with a link to it.
     
  10. Offline

    Mike1022

    I don't have anything against Factions, it's just that there are way too many factions servers. It would be nice if people stopped making factions servers for a while.
     
  11. Offline

    ZachBora

    Mike1022 I still remember when the hot things were Hunger games server, ugh...
     
    justcool393 likes this.
  12. Offline

    lecraeman


    You are living in a different world man. Noobs make faction servers true, but there are VERY FEW successful faction servers. People make it too hard to setup anything else.


    Wait...isn't that now 0-0

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  13. Offline

    Rexel

    • keep the discussion civil, or do not participate
    While mojang are complete fuktards that take ages to make shitty updates and break everything else people do as they go along. MCP is a joke now it still doesn't even support anything newer than 1.7.2

    I think some plugins should be redesigned I'm kinda sick of plugins that use flatfile storage in such a terrible way, per player files and even per player folders with per player files in them is just bad. Stuff like that is not really efficient sure it might be easier from OS file searching perspective, but I'll take a single sql db, or one flatfile that contains playernames and settings than a folder with over 9000's files.
     
  14. Offline

    lecraeman


    Actually I love when plugins seperate each player into a file. PermissionsEx always ticked me off because the users are in the same file as the groups, and I hate that. They should at least have a separate file.
     
  15. Offline

    Mike1022

    Ya, but they cutter the server lists and make it harder for us people that work hard on their servers.

    Back on topic:

    Even as a server owner the updates are fun. Sure, I have to wait for Bukkit to update, plugins break, and worlds get corrupt chunks, but it is still fun to untilize the new features in every update. Soon, there will be a plugin API, then we won't have to wait for Bukkit and modding will be less glitchy.
     
  16. Offline

    Ribesg

    Soon™.
     
  17. Offline

    Bobcat00

  18. Offline

    lecraeman


    People that work hard on their servers? You're kidding right? You think people who make faction servers don't work hard? What an egotistic point of view. Get over yourself. Faction servers do JUST as much work(OR MORE)then any other type.
     
  19. Offline

    TigerHix

    As a developer, I just want to point out one thing: if the plugin using won't support UUID system, they will still be outdated one day. Like nms class change, etc.

    Trust me, if one won't update their plugins, you can just switch to other alternatives. If there are no alternatives, post a thread in Plugin Request forum or buy a private one from developers.

    UUID system is a must-change, though it's too late and can cause a lot of problems.
     
  20. Offline

    asofold

    Not updating plugins means that players change names and you won't be able to reassign property and other things.

    However some plugins probably die or won't be updated, so you need a utility to fetch all uuids for past players "somehow".

    I bet it's fun :).

    It's with a deadline, which means data loss, unless you do something that prevents it. So there is little use for "they will get updated eventually", also plugin requests will probably be too slow and might end up not being sufficient.

    Some things can be done, but those who think it's "easy" probably have a pretty simple server (not a bad thing) or they might experience a little confusion (eventually!). I can afford to, and will (soon/eventually) implement a mechanism to stay legacy while keeping up a chance to not lose data, i.e. fetching all uuids and locking out the naughtiest of name changers. Alas i might have to hook into other plugins to change their data to not have them fetch the wrong uuids afterwards, probably i will replace some by own - but after all i don't want to run 10 different plugins too-much-alpha versions that all support uuids. Better scrap three...
     
  21. Offline

    TigerHix

    That's why I think you shouldn't use plugins that won't update. Even though there is no uuid thing, eventually they will broke one day and authors won't want to fix them.

    Well You could done some dirty tricks like decompiling/getting the source of the plugin and change the code yourself.. :p
     
  22. Offline

    asofold

    Oh right - you mean plugins that don't update anymore at all (e.g. since last doomsday) - i agree. I thought you were stating about plugins that are up to date for 1.7.x but won't update to 1.8. On the other hand it'll be hard to tell what strategy is sane to use, as we neither know when this could come earliest, except for "Mai, which is too soon" and "when Mojang feels that enough servers/people are running 1.8, which gives some hope that it's more like Mai 14th than may 1st, though we'd like to know more", finally find the plugins that will actually update and be happy if the plugins all work in the same easy to understand way.

    I really have to start implementing something :p.
     
  23. Offline

    TigerHix


    If a plugin is updated to use UUID system, it should suite 1.8 as well..? Sorry I don't quite get you.
     
  24. Offline

    asofold

    Yeah, now let's again list some problems with "suit the uuid system":
    a) SOMEHOW SUIT THE UUID SYSTEM, regarding the problematic cases that can arise with name changing, not just regarding the best-case-scenarios....
    b) SOMEHOW SUIT REAL LIFE PLAYERS, regarding the user interfacing and trust question. Easy for the programmer to do something, but the players won't really adapt to "remember your UUID" or "you have to know all other players name at any given point of time".
    c) SOMEHOW SUIT EACH OTHER, because plugins handle the above aspects differently, there can arise new problems.

    Point being, these problems won't and can't get solved simply, most plugin developers probably won't even attempt to, and after all this makes interaction between plugins necessary, where there had been none before (except for the contract to have unique and persistent player names).
     
  25. Offline

    LEOcab

    I really feel bad for this guy. Not to hate on anyone but there are many legitimate instances where plugin devs stray away from their plugins and a good number of users is left preferring the old version which is bound to broken by Bukkit some time in the future.
     
  26. Offline

    lecraeman


    I don't know what you're saying. Are you saying that I shouldn't complain that they force MCore down peoples throats, when they don't need it, or that I shouldn't upset that they got rid of faction chat, and that they changed all the commands, and users now have NO clue what to do?
     
  27. Offline

    UltraFireFX

    Wait, what? Why would you do that? Just use the MCore version and get FactionChat if that is what you are referring to.
    Again, get FactionsChat it should still work even though it has been abandoned for a long time (Still works for me and I am on 1.7.9)

    There is this thing called /help <PluginName> works most of the time, and in this case, I know it does.

    That original name is called a UUID, if you don't like that, fix the plugins yourself! Sorry but that's the harsh truth (Good idea from your point of view)

    Thank you, someone who has common sense! If you don't like your name, that's your fault for putting it in there! If you do, well no one can take it and thus you can't break any plugins.

    Bottom line:
    All UUID's add is the ABILITY to break plugins which affect YOU.

    I recently banned someone on my server due to them having TheirUsername TheirUsername_ And TheirUsername__, just to prove a point.
    Gosh, all they need is to update plugins to:
    - Save UUID's in place of Usernames
    - Lookup UUID's when you get a Username from old/user friendly logs
    - Shouldn't be a problem but if it does someone will make a Vault 2.0

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  28. Offline

    xbenas

    No, what I mean is that Mojang should store the very original name of the UUID, so that servers, who are slow on updating, would be able to always get the original name.
     
  29. Offline

    Thepom360

    I thing Mojang should work with Bukkit Team to make an better update or make it easy.
    also Yes I agree we will lose some plugins Because Plugins dev Don't have time to fright the bugs.

    RIP Good Plugins :(


    Changing your name is good But As you said Once banned, changes username come back.
    I think you would be only allow 3 name changes a month.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  30. Offline

    asofold

    The banning will be handled by UUID for latest Minecraft version - but you are right for legacy servers, i did not consider this yet. So people will need "legacy survival" plugins that allow banning uuids, while there is no API in Bukkit for it.

    There are distinct problems, and i guarantee you that it can't be solved in a simple way.

    Medium-short:
    - Players don't know and don't want to use and probably can't even their UUIDs for commands and signs.
    - Using other than UUIDs means you use names or tokens.
    - Using names instead has a big confusion potential because third players may address the wrong one after name changes. That goes for any thinkable way to deal with this change in a simple way - no consistent cure exists.
    - Using tokens means that many more plugins have to hook into each other, otherwise you have a lot of salad. Tokens also need to be memorized, or you need a new infrastructure to support users.

    All in all, dealing with this in a consistent way is a lot of work and means to alter many plugins to follow a common concept - maintaining usability is more and more difficult, because plugins need to be "somehow aligned" on how they allow referencing other players. Of course various concepts exist, but they just won't be in place in time, will reduce the choice of plugins that actually fit your concept, and are also more complicated to implement, more bugs more hazzle.
     
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