GUI and Models - A call to Action!

At this current moment in time there is NO standard for model loading etcetera.

Minecraft was not written with extensibility in mind, neither was bukkit.

Spout and Spoutcraft are attempting to acheive this extensibility and blend of client/server (you would still be able to use a minecraft vanilla client on a spout server and a spoutcraft client on a vanilla minecraft server)

Why not wait and see.

This is a community run by volunteers with other commitments in life, and things like developing take time (hobby time) which isn't the same as (for example) the source engine which is designed with extensibility in mind.

Minecraft is not a game written around a framework that can be extended and re-used, hence why it's harder to develop things like you see in Gmod (Spout/Spoutcraft does have custom blocks semi-working however, so you might wanna check that out!).

 

I knew someone was going to post that comic

 

its been a few days since someone did, i figured it should be me

 

Lets take a step back and read this.

 

Inappropriate? Im asking for creative and constructive discussion. All they have discussed is destructive discussion. You can disagree with someone, but if you don't want to even consider the discussion... then just dont get involved. I've done nothing inappropriate here. They however, have decided to take this from constructive discussion on the leaders of mods working together on a standard together, to a bashing of the idea itself.

Its simple... they don't want to be actively involved in constructive discussion... move on. Hence that would be trolling.

Again... Im asking that the "14" standards work together for 1. Im not asking for a 15th. Hence why the message was to bukkit and other mods. This insulting cartoon as a reply would show ignorance on what the subject of the thread is. Dont post if you are un willing to read and understand the topic.

Yes! Thank you. I think the most important thing to take from Netiquette is to understand the topic then to stay on topic. The topic of this discussion is not "should there be a standard" the toic is a call for it.

Great job @tyzoid.

 

@Machete.Panda
First, the discussion of "should there be a standard" is relevant here.

Your OP says (generally) "We need a standard for changing the in-game display"

Here are some questions that might be raised in a discussion:

• Should there be a standard?
• How should the new standard work?
• Would the new standard cover everyone's use cases?
• How will the new standard be implemented?
• Are there competing standards? (i.e other programs/plugins that do the same/similar thing)
• How is this standard better than any existing standard (if any)?

Secondly, one word of caution. I would not argue with any moderator. They are here to help promote a well-functioning community.

Lastly, refer to rule 7 of netiquette:
Help keep flame wars under control.

This means to not feed trolls, and to allow other people to express their opinions.

 

The call to action had already moved forward from the question "Should there be a standard?". This question is something discussed in high school or college and is not proposed in the discussion at all. So I am not sure why you would side track it. It might help those who want to ask it make a thread about it. Again if you want to blurt out netiquette, you should remember that staying on topic is one of the most important things in netiquette.

As for the other questions... absolutely. They should be discussed... but the open letter was to bukkit, spout and canary pointing to the minecraftforum. Because, citing netiquette again, a discusion on someones home turf can be exclusive and we want to be inclusive.

Your comment about arguing with moderators is a good point. Not sure why you are tell me. I have not argued with any. I have discussed.

As for your quoting of rule 7, in basic etiquette its rude to remind others of etiquette. The irany here is that I need to tell you about it. Your "netiquette" is missing a lot about good etiquette. You may be best severed by referring to "The Amy Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette".

But yes, others should be able to express their opinions, and just as good etiquette dictates within the context of the topic.

Now then, I will thank you to continue on with the discussion as defined by the thread topic. Quick reminder for you, this thread is not about "netiquette", "etiquette", "Are standards in industry needed?", "Is discussing arguing?" or "Why should I have to post a new thread about 'should there be standards?' instead of just posting it in a thread topic that focuses beyond that".

I hope this helps. Thanks.

 

@Machete.Panda

 

It would seem like this is arguing with a moderator.

Also, a third party (such as a moderator) is best in deciding who is in the right and in the wrong. People in the argument will always point the finger at someone else.


Back to the topic at hand...
Spout also has the ability to do everything you have asked for already. It provides a simple API for plugin authors to hook into, while keeping the server usable for everyone without the client mod.

Spout is as close a standard as the modding community will get.

If Mojang decides to implement it, that is their decision, and we will just use the built in API instead.

 

That was a defense to an accusation. No arguing involved.

Yes. Spout does. Again... objective of thread, get multiple groups on same page. If your proposing Spout be the standard they all conform too, sure maybe it has the best option; but you've missed the objective of getting them to work together so we dont have 4 or 5 different GUIs with 4 or 5 different Clients. They are all talented moding groups and the accumulated shared knowledge would probably bring a netter solution then just one of them going off alone.

 

We'd need at least one fully fledged project before we start talking about getting teams working together.

Let them get the experience seperately, and then work together to combine the knowledge and the best of everything.

The best of nothing is still nothing, whereas if you look at Guardian (LogBlock, BB, HawkEye devs) working together AFTER doing seperate ventures is the best way to do it.

Unless you know of a fully done client/server solution with model loading and everything you asked for, give it some time, be patient. People are already in action, and you're not going to change that by posting here.

 

Sorry, looking at your last sentence it looks like you misunderstood what I was asking for in the post. Im not trying to change people from working together. Im asking that they do and they are.

 

What I'm saying is have patience, people are already working on projects. When there is at least ONE fully fledged project, THEN is the time to get everyone involved together, this "request" of yours is months premature.

 

What I think the OP wants to say (correct me if I'm wrong):

What I guess most of us think he said:

My opinion:
I don't know of any GUI system other than Spout, and I suppose that is a good thing since Spout automaticly is/is becoming the standard.
I suggest we DON'T build another "standard" to prevent a situation like we are having with permission plugins.

Also: @Machete.Panda
You seem to have missed my last post.

 

I'm pretty sure most of us understood exactly what the OP said.
We're just explaining it doesn't work this way.

There's a good reason this thread is rehashing a similar statement by several people.
It's the same reason the other thread on minecraftforums isn't getting any new replies.

 

A quote from the minecraftforum.net topic (last post):

I highly doubt an industry standard will ever come from the minecraft modding community. It probably will come, from the Mojang team, not from the modding community.

For example, a system has to be available on enough clients to even be considered a standard.
How do you spread it across clients?
1. One system is so necessary, easy to use, so good and is the only one in its category so it automaticly becomes the standard (For bukkit = Spout)
2. The official distributor implements this so it is automaticly implemented in all clients. (future modding api from Mojang)

 

The explanation "it doesn't work this way" is an out right false statement. you could say "Its extremely difficult to get the parties involved to work together on this" and you would have more ground. and I'm not denying its difficult, I've had to set many industry standards for the construction industry with Building Information Modeling. But the point is, if there is the determination from the parties involved to get it done, then it will work.

Hence... call to action. A plea if you will. To work together.

I agree completely. Mojang has really dropped the ball. They are wreak-less with their lack of direction and they are wreak-less with their lack of leadership in this. But it has been my experience that you will NEVER get a software developer to encourage the industry to develop a standard for their software. I've worked on standards for the construction industry with Autodesk software and they were less than helpful.