Ever Notice How Dev's

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by VoidingNixx, Dec 23, 2011.

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  1. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    I never said it was ever the developers responsibility... I simply pointed out that it did not work with PEX. It could very well be a PEX bug... and yea, it upsets me when they say I cannot write in one single permission. They could at least have said "it may be a PEX bug" or "I didn't write it for PEX"... there are so many ways to answer this, instead of choosing the route of "well, it should work, and it's your fault."
     
  2. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Well, it should work, the plugin is written to follow superperms, meaning that if it isn't working for you on PEX it's either you or PEX. But instead you're going around blaming other developers for this and people don't like it. They work hard on a plugin, and to be told their functional code is broken can be irritating. I used to get complaints all the time from PEX bugs, so the idea that PEX has a bug isn't exactly new. Make sure you're running the latest release (1.17 had two releases, redownload it if you upgraded the first day) and try again.
     
  3. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    Running 1.17 already... re-downloaded yesterday just to be sure it was the most up-to-date. I've had multiple people check the permissions configs and the permissions file itself... people go quiet after they look at things... so I don't know where the problem is. I think I'll just give up on it, and take these plugins as they come... seems about the only thing you can do.
     
  4. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    Honestly, if you can't get that plugin to work there is definitely a problem with either your config or PEX and either way you should look into it. As discussed, developers don't get nearly enough bug reports so if you're certain you've written your permission node config properly you should report this issue.
     
  5. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    I see a lot of excuses for Devs being "real assholes". There is no excuse for being an asshole because your not 'treated' up to your standards or how you think you should be treated.

    Sure there are ungrateful ass holes out there that will dump on your plugin with nonconstructive remarks. It does not give a developer a right to spin around and attack anyone questioning what you are or are not doing. We all care for the community and enjoy the developments being made.

    Theres a reason developers $$ payments are called "donations". Dont like that people will use your plugins with out donating? Then move on and make room for Minecraft revolutionists. Dont like that someone is an asshole to you after your hard work on your plugin? Then hit ignore. Dont treat the next guy with a criticism like an ass.

    Could you add this link to your signature? It something you can do that wont violate Bukkit rules but will let those of us interested see it. :)
     
  6. Offline

    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı Retired Staff

    @Machete.Panda the link was removed because it was encouraging users to log in with their bukkit passwords to a site that wasn't bukkit-controlled. Otherwise it is related to the topic on hand.
     
  7. Offline

    mindless728

    if you don't like it, don't use it, good bye make it yourself or go join canary, because honestly the devs here take a lot of crap from the people using the plugins they make

    between small breaks that they make mountains out of molehills or feature requests that the devs doesn't want to do and the users complain. Then there is the server dev that doesn't know how to run/configure the server and asks for help that is DIRECTLY in the documentation

    and yeah, they SHOULD be treated with respect otherwise decent devs leave because you don't treat them like you should, because programming in general is something that a lot of people can't do well and is not the easiest skill to learn. So maybe they should be treated better because of it

    and yes, i said the devs here as i have for all intents and purposes, left this community behind because of ungrateful users
     
    DrAgonmoray likes this.
  8. Offline

    Vhab

    Something about a pot and a kettle..

    Either way, as this post has been going on for quite a while now, I might as well throw in a little rant.


    Developers are not super humans. They're not special mystical creatures weaving plugins out of magical threads.
    Developers are just like you, regular people who enjoy Minecraft.
    Some of them are kids, others are adults. A few of them hold a job as a programmer but most of them are just hobbyists.
    Let me state that again: most developers are hobbyists who create plugins because they enjoy doing so.
    Quite a few of them also enjoy releasing these plugins for you to use. Some might do it for the fame, others might have different reasons, but in the end they're just happily coding away in their spare time to make plugins.

    Now here's something many plugin developers are not: Professional programmers, Customer support, Quality assurance, etc.
    Again, consider most of them are hobbyists. They're human beings just like you.
    Now it turns out there are many different kinds of human beings. Some are nice and some are complete jackasses.
    The same goes for all users on this forum, some are true gentlemen and others will roam the streets to beat up a bus stop.

    Now what I'm getting at is: does every single user on this forum act as polite and reasonable as he should be?
    They don't. Should they? Definitely. Will they? Hell no.
    The truth behind an online community is that there will be jack asses (often amplified by anonymity).
    As much as many of you like to hold developers to a higher standard, it's unreasonable to do so without holding every single user on this forum to that same standard.

    Now, I can see you thinking and already hitting reply to type "but they're developers! they should.."...
    Let me stop you there. Developers are no different from anyone else on this forum.
    They're human beings with emotions, character traits and character flaws.

    I dare call anyone a hypocrite if he believes developers should behave according to a higher standard than regular users just because they created a plugin.
    I will however completely agree that everyone should behave according to higher standards on this forum.
     
  9. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    oh! I see. Thats not good.

    This isnt even the topic! READ IT AGAIN! The topic is Devs being assholes. No one is arguing they shouldnt be treated with respect just like any other human should.

    I HATE THAT PEOPLE DONT READ... ARGH!
     
  10. Offline

    Vhab

    This is a "flame developers" party and anyone who thinks otherwise is not invited?
    You might want to consider holding yourself to the standards you suggest devs should hold to.
     
    DrAgonmoray likes this.
  11. Offline

    mindless728

    i know, i did read it, and that is what i have to say about. Its basically the users being completely incompetent, getting upset, and treating the dev like crap, they DESERVE the dev to be an asshole to them IMO.

    Honestly i have found the best place for someone to release their plugin, in the WIP section, generally the users there are complete idiots
     
  12. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    This is not a 'flame dev's' post... and this is not about users being 'completely incompetent' either... this is about when you post something, politely, trying to help, and gettin' smart-ass responses from the Dev's.

    I can understand if you post being an ass to begin with, you get what is comin' to you... but seriously, all the posts I make are either polite, or just 'how it is'... I don't post anything inappropriate to them, unless they start shit. This post is about Dev's who think they never have problems with their plugins, and will not tolerate hearing about any problems. This is about the Dev's who want you to kiss their ass, or they will try to beat you into the ground with words... even tho it doesn't really work. ;p
     
  13. Offline

    lmc

    To be honest, your the kind of person that sometimes gets on my nerves (Being a plugin developer).

    You blaim us for something that dosent work, when 99.99% of the time it is due to your own incorrect setups. Its frustrating.
     
    DrAgonmoray likes this.
  14. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    Problem is... nothing is wrong on my end. I've had multiple people check the permssions and configs. Everyone seems to go quite after, because no one can find a single thing wrong... this only leaves one place the problem could reside... in a plugin.

    Hell, I don't even wanna post asking for help. I avoid it at all costs comin' to these sites... but after a week not being able to find a fix, this is kinda a last resort... and after a week of being stalled, it'd be nice to have someone willing to help find where the issue is with their work, rather than gettin' a "your stuff is broke" reply.

    Sure, maybe my reply was shitty, but I gave a shitty reply in response to a shitty answer... that's all there is to it. (not to you with your post here on the forums... I mean, for that plugin on the comments ;p)
     
  15. Offline

    lmc

    That is fair enough, I wasnt quoting the plugins ability to work correctly, just putting my point accross.
     
  16. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    And I value your point. ;) Not saying anything is wrong with what you said.

    In all honesty, my response (on the plugin comments) would have been better directed elsewhere, since this seems to be a plugin problem, but with a different plugin (PEX). So, I did get upset with a plugin not working, and gettin' a bit upset with one of the Dev's for their response, but it isn't their plugin which was the cause, but was another plugin instead. Their response is what set me off, and that is what I'm talking about with this whole thread.

    Why answer that way and start problems? Why not just answer "it could be an issue with PEX" or "I've tested with PEX and it works fine". I'd just like to see people respond without being dicks. Instead of all the possible responses, I get... I forgot exactly now, but something along the lines of "your stuff is wrong." This doesn't help! Especially when I go to them as a last-resort, after also trying to find help from multiple other places. ;p
     
  17. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    WHAT?! I never flamed developers. Are you stoned?

    You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Jumping to conclusions that I never even insinuated. You seem to just hate anyone that questions ass hole developers. There is no place for being an asshole to anyone that has not ben an asshole to you. And those developers that do, do this, need to pick up and go. This is just a "I dont care if the whole internet is an asshole to you... Dont give me a mood just because I pointed to an issue with your plugin." request from the OP.

    If you actually did read the OP then you would see the subject is developers that are just assholes with out any provocation. This is why you should probably re-re-read it again.
     
  18. Offline

    tyzoid

    Ditto what @mbaxter said.

    The site was an experiment and was a proposal for a new bukkit service (like bukkitDev)

    It is called bukkitHelp. Like mbaxtor said, it allows you to log in with your bukkit credentials while not being bukkit-controlled.

    I will be removing any more links I see around the forum, but if any of the bukkit admins would like to add it as a service, I would be more than happy to hand over the code so it would be bukkit-controlled.
     
  19. Offline

    Snipes01

    We had to keep this calm or its going to closed. Caps don't help.

    I'll show you something...

    http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic...ldedit-client-user-interface-v10/page__st__40

    look at the last few post starting from Balthasarx. I tried posting quotes but the forum ate it.

    Dev was sort of rude I called him on it, he apologized and I realized he had been asked many times about the same thing. One thing you can't ask if for someone to read through a thread with 40 pages to find his answer. Its hard. I do it, but most users will not.
     
  20. Offline

    VoidingNixx

    I'm not saying all Dev's are bad... I have run into some really good ones, who seem to care a great deal about their work. But I have ran into a ton who are just bad... who, I get the feeling anyways, think they are 'god at a keyboard.'

    I did not intend to insult all Developers out there... I'd never even imagine of doing such a thing... I'm just saying, some people are just really bad at what they do, and some people do not have the mentality or attitude to even be responding to people. I'd rather have no response than receive one which is just gonna piss me off. If a Dev cannot show a little respect in answering, I'm not going to respect them back.

    The OP, yes, maybe it did sound like this was aimed at all Dev's.... sorry, it was not. I mean, I just got done chattin' with mrmag518 for awhile now... and that dude is helpful and willing to stand by his work.... but unfortunately, not all Dev's are like this, and I have had the luck of encountering quite a few who are on the other side.
     
  21. Offline

    Vhab

    You're calling out developers for acting like assholes, yet you're jumping straight for my throat yourself.
    You want to hold developers to a certain standard you're not willing to enforce on yourself.
    Most of your replies are highly disrespectful and unnecessarily rude.

    I encourage you to read my earlier post.

    I also encourage you to read your own post again.
    Is this exemplary behavior of how you want developers to behave to you?
     
  22. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    On myself? When did I ever deviate from the standard being discussed. You speaking off base completely. Get yourself fixed.

    And when did I call out developers in general. Get yourself straight. Im calling out assholes and was NEVER rude. Point to one thing I said that was rude that was not a response to an attack already posted at me.

    YOU CANT.
     
  23. Offline

    tyzoid

    @Vhab @Machete.Panda
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Offline

    Vhab

    I believe I have pointed out several in your last and current post.
    Here's also the problem. It appears you consider an argument for a different opinion than yours is an attack.
    I'm not attacking you, I'm discussing something with you.

    Don't worry, I've got experience :)
     
  25. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    You attacked first and got your response. And BTW... I didnt realize you were just a troll. LOL

    True... I totally fell for it. I didnt even realize he was trolling.
     
  26. Offline

    tyzoid

    While what you said was in response to someone else, that was unnecessary and was not following the same guidelines we are discussing in this thread.

    Going through @Vhab 's comments, I can't say the same thing as posted above. He seems to have gotten his point across without rude comments.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2016
    Vhab likes this.
  27. Offline

    NuclearW

    I see this thread has fallen to mudslinging and personal attacks.

    This is the last warning for this thread, if you cannot conduct this conversation civilly then I will have to lock this thread.
     
    Technius, tips48, Vhab and 1 other person like this.
  28. Offline

    tips48

    Wow. All the hate in this thread.
    Developers are not super humans. Server administrators are not super humans. Yes, some developers are assholes. But consider this: Maybe said person just isn't having a bad day? We all have real lives. Also, I can speak from experience in saying that some administrators are assholes.
    I agree that developers could be nicer, but its frustrating when a user doesn't know how to submit a bug in a clearly outlined template. Take the scenario above: A user tells the plugin developer his plugin doesn't work because the user hasn't correctly configured PEX. Things like this make me personally angry, because its not our fault, yet the user blames us. Then a new user comes along and doesn't use the plugin because the new user doesn't think it works with PEX.
     
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  29. Offline

    Machete.Panda

    He attacked first Questioning my integrety with "standard you're not willing to enforce on yourself." Falsly saying things like "you're jumping straight for my throat yourself." When I was attempting to discuss this with him.

    So no, you can say the same as above. If he cant handle a response of equal discussion... then meybe he should get involved. So far he has out right lied about the point to this thread.

    Yeah agreed. this thread is going no place fast. We were one a discussion but people seem to rather proclaim your attacking them when your responding to them.


    Agreed! About time someone gets back on topic. :) One "jerk" user doesnt give a developer the right to be a "asshole" to all users. And you make the point... we arent talking about every developer... however some people have a chip on their shooulder and seem to want to address the discussion as a blanket attack against al ldevelopers.
     
  30. Offline

    Vhab

    I don't want to give @NuclearW more of a headache than needed over this thread.
    I'm sorry you felt attacked by my posts @Machete.Panda, this was certainly not my intention.
    I will try to phrase my posts even more carefully in the future.

    I'll leave it at that.
     
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