Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by extended_clip, Sep 3, 2014.
What? Windows isn't GPL.
Well, I wonder how long we have to wait for Dinnerbone to update to 1.8...
I think they're just talking about the copyright definition of derivative works which would validate/invalidate a license's legal authority.
It doesn't matter, references aren't derivatives. Derivatives take the code, modify it, and redistribute it. You are redistributing the code from the GPL project, even if it has been modified. If your referencing it you just asking it for information (or giving it information). That is not distributing code from the original project.
What I was saying is that projects that use an API from a GPL project, if entirely new code, are not bound by GPL. If they were all Bukkit plugins would be bound by GPL and BukkitDev would only allow 1 license. (and I wouldn't be a plugin developer, because I would refuse to use such a stupid license.)
Something that literally renders Wolfs DMCA Null and Void piece by piece. (Pun intended)
Hey guys, Check the grammar and format of the notification. It is not the same as the typical DMCA copyright claims. Look it up!
My feelings exactly!
Hundreds of people use Bukkit, and it gets taken down mainly due to one person. That is so selfish.
Minecraft is proprietary software. Fine. Mojang needs to document an exception for Bukkit, and license it accordingly. Bukkit in no way tries to profit from Minecraft. Mojang can license Bukkit as GPL and call it whatever type of pBukkit only tries to extend the community. This software isn't harming anyone. If anything it helps Minecraft because so many people rely on Bukkit for Minecraft.
Mojang owns both pieces of software and could find a way to license each
Open sourced projects like this are amazing. Just look at what STEAM has done for the industry. Bukkit should be shared and enjoyed, and the fact that one person has so much say over something so many uses makes me sick. Bukkit should be liecesned under GPL with clear documentation both from Mojang and the Bukkit organizers to keep these kinds of matters clear.
This should be a happy time for Minecraft enthusiasts. Version 1.8 is out, we should be enjoying it.
DMCA complaints are not "fill in the blanks". There's specific things they must include to be taken most seriously, but the exact format is up to the complaining person (or their representative) to sort out.
This was Wesley as he wrote up and published the DMCA request:
That's his right assuming the DCMA claim and licensing is valid. However as said in this thread, this may not be true.
They already did say it was ok which is legally fine. The problem with a verbal and any documented exception is that Mojang can revert it at any time by Mojang's EULA, hence the instability. Their EULA repeatedly states "give permission" and if Mojang doesn't want Bukkit anymore, they can retract their permission.
I don't think this is about Bukkit profiting from Minecraft. I believe this is about lack of support for Bukkit during the time Mojang said they would provide support until now. As well, this is also about who controls bukkit now, Mojang. We'll all be screwed over if Bukkit is discontinued in favour of Realms. I'm not saying it will happen, I'm just saying that Mojang has this unprecedented control now. Not everyone likes the idea of that.
Mojang isn't the type to be open source if you haven't noticed. They obfuscate their code and licence it under a proprietary license.
I agree, that's why I don't think Mojang should have been able to "buy" it in the first place. It should be owned by the community and it's contributors, not 1 company.
I agree, but unfortunately due to Mojang's recent decisions and stated threats against the userbase, this isn't happening.
Many are missing the bigger picture here, I think. I find it humorous that there are so many cries of "selfishness", when so many of these people are using works created by another, without paying anything in return.
I can't speak to Wolverness' motives for this, but I suspect it has something to do with Mojang's hubris regarding the Bukkit project. If I had been a core developer, contributed a huge amount of code and time to the community, and then been publicly humiliated by Mojang, I'd probably be motivated into a fight. Especially one regarding the principals of Free software. Remember, GPL is a License, not ownership. Mojang claims to "own" Bukkit, but it does not. The creators of the code each own their contributions, per copyright law. That they have licensed it under the GPL, doesn't actually transfer their ownership of it. Mojang's assertion that it "owns" Bukkit may have been the catalyst for this action.
I would suggest that people seriously consider what Bukkit is/was. It's not a .jar file that you download and install on your server. It was a community of passionate people, working together towards a (mostly) common goal. These people put hundreds of hours of their lives into developing the Bukkit software. They are emotionally invested in it. Now, Mojang comes along and claims to own their hard work? I think not.
I'm not sure what Wolverness' goal was. Maybe it was just to make a point. Maybe it was to fight for principals of Free Software. (Read this, before you argue: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html)
Mojang creates non-free software. That they profit from financially. Arguably, they have also profited from the Free Software that the Bukkit team created. Now, they claim to "own" software which they do not. So Wolverness is exercising his rights to prevent Mojang from releasing Bukkit containing his contributions, unless all parts of the release are made available under the GPL. If I were in the same situation, I would likely do the same thing purely on principle, to protect the rights and freedoms of all, not for personal benefit. I understand that many will not see it this way, but I suspect that most of those people are "consumers", not "contributors".
Anyway, I think the whole thing is fascinating, and I'm going to grab some popcorn now, and watch the show.
Sage905 I cannot have said it better myself
This doesn't look good, For Server Owners, Players, Developers Mojang or the Bukkit Team. I'm still wondering about this, still very confused. What will happen now or next? We have lost 2 loyal staff, so I feel like Bukkit is going downhill now.
Sage905 That was an amazing explanation. I have not thought of it in your perspective!
We all know how greedy and evil Mojang has become but we must fight together to stop Mojang from doing what they're planning to do... Turn Minecraft into something not fun at all, something just about money and an enterprise that will eventually make fool of everyone in the community. We must stick together and fight against Mojang.
EDIT: Just to put it out there, Mojang did not help Bukkit once. Yet they now claim to own it and do what with it? Let it die? Of course it's all about Minecraft Realms! Wooh! Meanwhile at Mojang an employee is being served jello with cold lemonade and spinning Notch around on a $400 office chair.
I completely agree, lets all fight against mojang. Shut down bukkit, no 1.8 update. Leave the DMCA in place, no more craftbukkit builds available at all. What we have is what we get, there is no more coming. Fight against Mojang! The devs and leaders of bukkit rule, No More BUKKIT!
I don't think this is about "greed". Bukkit was founded because people (including Dinnerbone, et al.) contributed freely, and for no other reason than passion for the project. The Bukkit community might have survived EvilSeph's departure. I'm doubtful about the ability for Bukkit to continue now, though, because the goodwill that founded and sustained the community has been very quickly drained by Mojang's approach in the past few weeks, coupled with a waning interest of the core bukkit devs to continue the fight. I suspect Mojang wanted to keep Bukkit alive until their own API was ready, and they may very well have been able to... If not for some really unfortunate posturing over EvilSephs announcement.
My $0.02 is that Mojang basically has two choices at this point:
a) Extend an olive branch (and an apology) to these people, and try to work with them to enable Bukkit to continue until the Mojang API is ready.
b) Continue to escalate this battle with the community. They may be able to legally release more Bukkit builds, but they will cause irreparable damage to the server community in the process.
Wait, I was reading another tread and someone said Mojang will now OWN Bukkit, accually OWN it and put it into vanilla. Is this true?
I personally think they should just simply let it die. Why should they support a community that is obviously dead set against them. They own the rights to bukkit because the original devs sold it to them. They should literally let the DMCA stand and just leave bukkit as it currently is, unavailable. That is what this community deserves.
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
Sage905 TnT has also left, thus bringing the bukkit community & team downhill. What will Happen now? Will the project continue? Who is left to develop Bukkit? What is Mojang doing about this?
You have a very true perspective, I'd love to hear more.
Dinnerbone was updating CraftBukkit to 1.8.. At least that was until Wolfe decided to throw up this DMCA. Now it looks like there will not be another CraftBukkit.
This is exactly what Mojang wants... Bukkit to die. It's been their plan for a long time and the timing is right. The "Minecraft EULA Donation/purchase" thing was not recent... Think about it, do you really think parents just recently started to complain at Mojang for their kids stealing credit cards and using them on servers? NO. It's been happening for over 2 years now and Mojang is using that as an excuse to say "hey we're putting out a new EULA term now". This has all been planned for what they call "profit". See.. What Mojang thinks will happen is that most people will have a Minecraft copy and won't need another one and it's true the sales of Minecraft clients has been going slower than before, hence why the price is now higher than it used to be 2 years ago. Mojang's main money source is coming from Minecraft and yet they're focusing on other garbage games instead of focusing on Minecraft like they used to, their mindset of a game that was based on fun and community is now only profit.
All I can say at this point is Mojang fucked us over big time and I knew it was coming.
P.S Dinnerbone doesn't give a shit about Bukkit. It's just a cover up to make Mojang look like they care.
BillyGalbreath What happens now? :O WAIT? No More CraftBukkit? What? This is very serious. So all plugin devs are doomed? Unless some other person/orginization completely remakes something like Bukkit or hMod?
Oh trust me buddy you'll see what Mojang has in store for us. You'll see... When I say in "store" I mean you gotta pay up $$
I'm personally putting all my projects on hold until Mojang releases their official ModAPI.
EmpowerGaming This could wreck multiplayer, And what do you mean, Mojang wanted to kill Bukkit? So Mojang can get profits of a diff thing? Also, Why put projects on hold?
BillyGalbreath So Mojang IS making their own ModAPI, correct? Or is this Bukkit server mod finished? How will this effect the API for us devs? Also, Why put plugins on hold?
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
I know you're very confused about this situation and so are everyone else, so just wait and lets see what happens. There is nothing we can do right now.
I still am very confused. The reason I'm asking so many questions is cause I feel like I have an answer, perhaps Mojang is making their own server mod, or implementing it into Minecraft. And also, when you said Mojang wants to kill Bukkit, I am starting to thing that also, because of Realms, the new EULA, and now this.
Excuse me lol? This community deserves to be open and not in the iron clutches of Mojang.
Sage905 I believe the olive branch is the best option here. If Mojang continues on its course without communicating and working with the community, I believe more of the userbase will turn against them over time.
Awesomedanguy Everything Mojang has done since the announcement to enforce the EULA is already currently disrupting multiplayer. We are putting projects on hold because the outlook of Bukkit is very bleak right now. Why develop if no one's going to use it or it can't be used?
Mojang has been making the ModAPI for the past 4 years. Keep waiting... The API will almost surely require us to recode our plugins.
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