Completely new plugin system?

Discussion in 'Archived: Plugin Requests' started by morshu9001, Nov 6, 2011.


Should plugins actually be YMLs executed by a master plugin?

  1. Yes, this will be easier. I'm sick of plugins not working with the new CB versions.

  2. No, this is a stupid idea. It's fine how it is. We don't need random people making random plugins.

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    As far as I'm concerned, I've been using essentials that's from 1060 and it still hasn't broken yet. I've been just changing the version tags on my plugins, and I've even tested them, they haven't broken since 1000. I've been checking worldguard, which I've been using since 953. Not broken. Worldedit. Not broken.

    The fact is, you're using plugins that break like:

    In fact, that's probably the only one I know that breaks.
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    You're either exaggerating or downloading crappy plugins.
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    BigBrother, WorldEdit, LogBlock, Exile, and DeathBan broke. Some other stuff like LifeMC and that thing that lets you make semicustom scripts aren't backwards compatible, but few plugins are.
    And WorldEdit was not 100% broken, but you needed an update for good functionality.

    As for the 1337 download, I clicked on the download link. It took me to that site with all of the builds on it and let me download "1337" (the filename even had "1337" in it). When I ran it and did the version command, it said I was running something older, and none of the 1337 plugins except for NoCheat were working. I was getting messages from NoCheat saying that I don't have 1337...
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    So... 4 plugins is 9/10? As for WorldEdit needing an update for "good functionality", what makes you think your method of creating plugins would be different? It would have the exact same problem. New minecraft features get added, so plugins need to update to take advantage of them. That's the way it works.

    While I did call you out on exaggeration, I'm not denying that plugins sometimes need updated. The main point is that your system wouldn't be any better. It couldn't be. It would have the same problems.

    Your very own opening statement can easily be rewritten:
    And, conversely:

    Don't you see? What you're suggesting is what Bukkit already is. You for some reason want to add yet another layer, which is silly and unnecessary.
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    so what version was it? post some facts for once instead of saying 'stuff dun werk'. the filename for any download of bukkit is "craftbukkit-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar". im not sure how you got one with '1337' in it but im not surprised it doesnt work since it clearly didnt come from the craftbukkit jenkins site.

    as for the rest of your argument, im trying to figure out how you and only you can experience 90% failure rate of plugins across craftbukkit updates when the rest of this community is doing fine. the only possible reason i can think is that you are new here, and you just arrived right before they deprecated the old config methods...but that doesnt even makes sense because the old methods (and plugins using them) still work right now.
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    hell to go along with what others have said, i'm using the stats & achivements plugin from way back, like 1.3 or so AFAIK and it still works, that alone speaks for the stabilyt of craftbukkit.
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    Oh look, my plugin was quoted :)
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    You are saying that I lie about my downloads? It was from the Jenkins site at the 1337 download, and it is 1317 in fact. As for the file name, that is a mistake. When I launch it, it says that I'm running "(long string here)1337(other stuff)". So that's not actually the filename but the label. I checked, and the filename is craftbukkit-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT. I provided facts that you just didn't read: I downloaded it from Jenkins. Want a link?
    In case you thought I didn't know where that site was. Jeez, I feel like I get these kind of responses since my avatar is a Morshu troll face.

    P.S. BlueMond I can't wait to get 1337 so I can use your plugin! It looks really nice!
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    if you claim that the filename is something impossible (to be provided from the jenkins site) then what am i supposed to think? until now, you hadnt posted any useful information.

    "It was from the Jenkins site at the 1337 download, and it is 1317 in fact. When I launch it, it says that I'm running "(long string here)1337(other stuff)"."

    so this makes no sense. the version string in your console says what version it is. im not sure why you think its 1317 if it says 1337 in the console. this is impossible so its not 'facts'. when i download 1317 it says 1317 in the console, when i download 1337 it says 1337 in the console. if you are downloading from the jenkins then you are downloading the same files i am. logic tells us that yours can not act differently than mine if they are the same.

    i may seem like a dick for calling you out on every error you make in your post but without the proper information how can anyone try to help you? as you can see in my previous post i am trying to figure out why you are experiencing a 90% failure rate across updates when no one else is. so far i only have that theory that you came in right before a major update which did break some things, and that you assume that is how it always is, when in fact, that is rare. aside from that theory, i have no idea why you are having such trouble when no one else is. anyway, all of this is off topic with regard to your original post/idea of a new plugin system so i guess it would be better to move a discussion about these problems to a help thread if you want help so this thread can go back to talking about your idea. sorry for derailing the discussion.
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    Well I would hope it looks really nice. I've spent countless hours coding it and fixing bugs. And I also added iConomy support today. Thanks :D
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    <insert some long argument here>
    Lock this thread plz. This has already been "Solved" and there is no need for a new system, as he is suggesting what bukkit already is.
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    aha, just now I ran it, and it said 1317 for both. I'm sure that I downloaded 1337. So it never said 1337...
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    *This whole thread is TL;DR.
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    Really? My plugin broke at least three times since 1060 (and I mean hard breaks, like it throws random exceptions, doesn't load or does other unexpected things). I'm just usually fast with pushing out new versions in those cases.

    @topic: I read the whole thread, but didn't see this clearly stated yet, so I'll do that now:

    The real problem isn't that Bukkit hasn't got a stable API. The Bukkit API is very stable, I believe it only broke 3-4 times within the last 6 months and all those breaks were really small. In addition, any big changes to the Bukkit API are announced in advance and usually there is backwards compatibility for months (when possible) to allow a smooth transition.

    The problem is that the Bukkit API is very limiting in what you can do with it, which causes many plugin developers to bypass the Bukkit API and interact directly with the CraftBukkit implementation, or even worse, go one level deeper and interact with the Minecraft implementation (I have to do that for my plugin at one point, therefore it breaks now every time Minecraft updates :-/ ).

    The only problem to fix plugin breakage would be to extend the Bukkit API to cover all functionality that plugin developers need. And that would be a horrible job to do and maintain.

    Setting up a scripting system would be exactly the same as implementing a new API on top of Bukkit, CraftBukkit or Minecraft. You would need somebody to write that API (in addition to find somehow a simple yet efficient way of parsing scripts) and you'd end up with either a limited, stable API and a simple scripting language that only covers "the common cases" e.g. sending a message, placing a block (just like the Bukkit API does currently) or a unbelievably complicated mess that is hard to write and maintain, hard to use for the script writers due to its complexity and that will break with every update of Minecraft (just like plugins that use CraftBukkit or Minecraft directly).

    TL;DR version: Plugins that only use the Bukkit API usually don't break. But that API is limited, so plugins use CraftBukkit and Minecraft directly -> they break on updates. A scripting system would be either simple, stable and limited (like the Bukkit API) or complex, unstable and flexible (like using CraftBukkit and Minecraft directly). There can't exist a simple, stable and flexible way to define plugins (in code or script) as long as Minecraft isn't perfectly stable.

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