BukkitDev is Cursed

Discussion in 'BukkitDev Information and Feedback' started by drtshock, Sep 8, 2014.

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    Apparently cursing at curse is bannable and violates the terms? eyamaz What term would that be?
    coxie53 likes this.
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    no, its not. but vehemently stating f*** mojang, curse, bukkit, <insert former bukkit staff>, etc. is

    i do not care if you state a dislike for any of the above.
    Inscrutable likes this.
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    It's interesting how Curse staff can reply to this thread with offtopic messages regarding a user's behavior while blatantly ignoring the very question directed at them in the first post.
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    Proper grammar, please. You are moderating the forums after all.

  6. eyamaz get Shrekt.

    GJ Jade & chaseoes You da real MVP's
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    My apologies and deepest sympathies for offense in the case of the fallacy that is my grammar in the statement thou hath quoted of mine. I shall, in future times, bequeath to myself a better sensibility of verbose.

    or something to that effect

    The answers to the question that though seek is not mine to give.
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    First impressions are everything. If you expect to hold a respectable reputation both as a company (Curse) and moderator (administrator?). Not that the Curse part is being executed well, but whatever.
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    Understandable statement, and partially agreed.
    jorisk322 and slipcor like this.
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    No one has been removed from any roles in the community except by their resignation. I have brought in my team to help keep things orderly as we go through this transition (even though we don't know to what at this point).

    I did ask for people to give us an overview of the processes that where carried over so we could do our best to maintain that same level of control going forward. Before those discussions had even finished, the staff members I was talking to also resigned. I'm not sure what more could be expected.
    Jadedcat, eyamaz and silas like this.
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    Kaelten What could be expected is for you to act like actual respectable staff compared to ignorant dictators.
    coxie53 likes this.
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    The former admin team actually had a generous budget of author reward points (exchangeable for cash or amazon gift cards) to give DBO staff members. That budget was given out at their discretion without any real oversight from us so I can't speak about how justly that was managed. If that budget was not sufficient it was never brought to my attention.

    I apologize to the volunteers who've thought that their contributions where in any way undervalued. The efforts you guys have put forth has been phenomenal.

    If we were ignorant dictators this thread would not exist.
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    PS. Just please, for the love of god, make the server files as easy as they were before to setup. I know a lot of owners who are terrified that the sources will change, things will be harder to download and install and the custom control panels will not be able to automatically update the respective plugins.

    PSS. Id also like to thank the Bukkit staff, both retired and staying, for the enormous amount of support and community driven attitude for everything. You guys (not saying forge and spigot aren't a little) are the main reason Minecraft is what it is today. For all your long hours and countless sleepless nights, I thank you.

    PSSS. I only wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, Its going to be tough but nothing you guys can't handle. And to all those who have left I hope you can find things to fill the huge hole of free time left by bukkit.

    Its been a great run. :)

    -_Husky_- likes this.
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    Will new volunteers be brought in for staff? And is the officially stated method still the way to go about applying?
    If this is misdirected, I apologize, but as you and the other Curse admins are currently responding to threads, it seems opportune time to ask. Certainly some of the others that expressed interest are likely to be quite capable and as a server owner, I have interest to see Bukkit live a bit longer. :)
    silas likes this.
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    I was actually unaware of any incentives given to the DBO staff, I knew that plugin developers got compensation based on download activity. Was it given out based on how many plugins they approved and the success rate of it not violating policy?
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    I am in the same boat here. My experience with plugin development is limited so instead let me put my name down for anything that might help out. I will note that I have a lot of experience with moderating forums so If there's anything I can do to help let me know.
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    Author reward points. You mean the points they made from their own releases?

    It wouldn't exist, you're right, but I would call you out on it anyway. I don't let representatives of companies, or companies themselves get away with that. I could actually bring up some touchy topics but I'll wait until it's announced.
    coxie53 and farkros like this.
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    Well, it seems like Curse points were to be awarded to the DBO staff for doing their jobs, but sounds like no one heard of this and they werent given out. I, of course, have no clue about it and never heard of it until now...
    Inscrutable likes this.
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    As of right now no new staff will be accepted, we're going to wait to see how things settle out. We will let people know what happens in that regards in the future.

    I definitely appreciate the interest :)
    No the points were arbitrarily awarded by the admin team.

    These would have been in addition to any points awarded for releases.

    There's always touchy subjects in times like these. There's a lot that could have been done in different, and many times better, ways.

    Inscrutable likes this.
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    I see. Now, were any of the points actually used or are they still contained in the user/s' "bank" or whatever?
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    The "generous budget of author reward points" amounted to 1,000 a month (that's $50). That would then have to be distributed across around 30 BukkitDev staff members. If distributed equally, that's around $1.50 per person, per month.

    There was never a set method on how they were distributed, and they were never meant to be pay. When used, they were only a "thank you".
    Garris0n, Inscrutable and drtshock like this.
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    We do not know this community because we were asked to keep out of the community. Maybe if we had been allowed to be more involved we could have helped alleviate some of the stresses. However with not knowing the community it would be incredibly irresponsible for us to randomly select volunteers.

    As to the dictator comment, the only rule we have declined to enforce is the one about banning people who discuss alternatives to bukkit. Links to downloads are not allowed, but we are not going to censor discussion of competitors especially when the future of Bukkit is unknown. Links to websites are fine, if you click a website link that's your choice.

    As to the question about pay. We are paid to manage CurseForge, not forums. I would have negotiated a higher salary if I had been aware forum moderation might be part of the job :p . I like data and files, forums are messy. We will do the best we can, but most of us are not moderators, just programmers and coders. I am the only one that also does moderating mostly for sites with a lot more children, so I may sometimes be a bit too harsh on foul language and the like. If you calmly let me know something was allowed under the previous moderator rules I am happy to revisit any decision I made.

    Our team's big things are
    • No third party download links. If its not on Bukkitdev, it should not be a direct download link -- this does not apply to plugins. But use any linked plugin at your own risk.
    • No bullying/attacking/harassing of anyone and especially not of former staff. They deserve respect for the effort they have put in.
    We are not going to censor people for discussing alternatives to bukkit, or for disliking Curse, or for disliking us.
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    The budget was actually much higher than that, and if they had came to me asking for a bigger budget I'd have done what I could to make it happen. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

    Volunteers are often paid in "Thank you"s. These actually had real world value.
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    Mavhill likes this.
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    In the 6 months that I was approving, I reviewed 5119 Files, Amounting to 545 Mb. I even went as far as to work to construct tools that would ease approval, which significantly reduced approval time for common libraries, unchanged classes, etc.

    In these six months, I topped the team and using these tools significantly dropped approval time from days to hours to mins, with the aid of some fantastic contributors. Now regardless I didn't work for curse, or get any perks, I did this for the community... for an idea, to protect those downloading plugins, and make BukkitDev a safe place. What will happen now without the experience of this community?

    I literally just quit a job because the VP said it was not feasible to pay me for the hours I worked. On a business stand point it wouldn't make sense to increase the budget because these "volunteers" are doing this work on these principles regardless. If it wasn't for some of the administration pleading for these 1000 points these contributors would have received.... thousands of messages asking why the hell their plugin wasn't approved yet. So my suggestion is to not sit here and patronize these people. Most of us are a feeling fantastic by all the wonderful news.

    Please let me know what you approve so I know what not to download, If I even care enough to visit. The whole site will turn into an orgy of backdoors, bytecode manipulations, and different hacks. Because I know where your priorities are at.

    Bukkit's Independence... There is a joke. Between Mojang and Curse you guys can pay people to maintain this project, whoever owns it.
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    Your contributions are sincerely appreciated.

    I'm not trying to patronize anyone, I'm sorry if that was the way in came across. My point was, and is, that there would have been more points available if the need had been communicated.

    I'm told that part of the reason EvilSeph stepped down was due to his stress over DBO moderation. As of the day that he had stepped down I hadn't heard from him about a year. I've told him, as I'm telling everyone now, that if he had came to me I'd have been more than happy to lend aid.

    I'm sorry you feel that way, and I'm up front about what my motivations are. Please let me know if you would like clarification.
    Inscrutable and silas like this.
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    Curse is more unappreciated them I ever thought possible, jesus people. I mean curse has given us some of the best sites in gaming around, including but not limited to cureforge and MMO-Champion. The Curse team have always been some of the most respectable people I have ever met. I feel like this drama has tainted even the best of peoples opinions and it's a shame. :(
    Mavhill, ThePixelPony and silas like this.
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    timtower Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Kaelten Are you saying that dropbox and mediafire links aren't allowed anymore for requested plugins?
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    I am not aware of EvilSeph stepping down. Bukkit development was halted, and the following was stated:
    Subsequently, it was Mojang employees, not EvilSeph, who assigned emotions by suggesting that EvilSeph was "bored", declared development not halted (and subsequently not going anywhere, but that's not too relevant). I don't know who did it, and don't want to point fingers, but somebody removed EvilSeph from his position on here. There was no stepping down, merely removal.

    I find it unfortunate to see further perpetuation of this alternate storyline. Hope it's an honest mistake that you'll correct! :)
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    I'm not really going to argue semantics, because if he didn't step down the alternative explanation of events is even less flattering. EvilSeph is a good guy, and shouldn't be dragged through the mud either.

    For right now we're going to ask that you don't. I'm not sure if this completely reflects the previous standards, but with the increased likelihood of griefing via downloads it's important we do what we can to keep things secure.
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