BukkitDev is Cursed

Discussion in 'BukkitDev Information and Feedback' started by drtshock, Sep 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Offline

    drtshock Retired Staff

    Curse,

    I am just wondering the thought process behind replacing volunteers with years of experience of doing something with paid workers that have no clue what they're doing. You wouldn't have wanted to compensate us in any way with how much money you guys make on the platform? I also think it would've been wiser not to ask the volunteers you're replacing to train in the paid workers. That's just mean. On top of that, the paid workers won't do anything until the tools are fixed. We had been requesting changes to those tools for years yet nothing came of it.

    Thanks!
     
    CircuitSoft, bendem, Skyost and 32 others like this.
  2. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    I believe the proper response would have been to boycott (curse) BukkitDev for better tools on day 1.

    Maybe that would have garnered more attention.
     
  3. Offline

    Laekh

    I wonder if they'll end up bowing for the mighty queue..
     
    sfxworks and railguy_ like this.
  4. Offline

    Onlineids

    That thread title tho
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Offline

    Kainzo

    It's not exactly fair to say this when this was a staff decisions to move to Curse. Not to mention the "leaving" incident was involving Mojang, not Curse (right?).

    Things were mis-managed and poorly run. Everyone knows that.
    Subjective locking of threads / posts - mass deleting of posts pertaining to things that "Bukkit" didn't feel necessary to talk about.

    The censorship was hardcore and it splintered the community into fractions of different communities (see Spigot, Spout, etc).

    A free flow of communication and information should be the "staple" of any open source organization and this one failed to produce that. The recent EULA, Bukkit and Mojang drama just furthered the ending sooner rather than later.
     
    Skyost, Inscrutable and Padeius Etoh like this.
  6. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    It was a combination, depending on who did what, but I can't answer for them.

    I was trying to stress this though
    - Their paid workers wont work until better tools are made
    - Our volunteers used what they could to their best ability (while asking for improvements, for 2 years)
     
    coxie53, DHLF and farkros like this.
  7. Offline

    Kainzo

    No doubt, however, this is what happens whenever Bukkit Leadership tells Curse to "stay out of it" and then gets mad that they lacked support from Curse.

    Note: I'm very thankful that people invested their free time to run a project. I just wish it was better managed and had a culture that supported free thought and encouraged better collaboration rather than "If you arent Bukkit, you're evil" mentality.
     
    Inscrutable and Creeoer like this.
  8. Offline

    drtshock Retired Staff

    Kainzo This thread has nothing to do with the forums, it's about BukkitDev.
     
  9. Offline

    railguy_

    I can only imagine how long those approvals are going to take now...
     
  10. Offline

    drtshock Retired Staff

    Much shorter. They are opting for speed and not caring about security from what I've heard.
     
    lDucks and chakyl like this.
  11. Offline

    Kainzo

    The mentality carries over, easily.

    Our project hc.to/heroes - has been deleted 3 times from BukkitDev, with very little information and just a blanket statement to "read the rules" - without stating where it violated the rules. Curse allows for hosting of mods and other things like FML/Forge but for some reason not side-projects like Libigot / Spigot (at the time)

    There's countless examples and forum threads on other forums that make it apparent.
     
    jorisk322 likes this.
  12. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    drtshock feildmaster well, now that you all chose to bail on the community, you really don't have to worry about it, do ya.

    If you want to complain and whine about all the bad stuff, that big bad evil curse has done to you, or is it mojang, I get confused you guys change who you are complaining about, Oh wait, didn't bukkit have control over its own stuff just a couple of weeks ago, before they decided to quit developing for 1.8. I am really confused.

    TL;DR, please, you quit, now go away. Oh and take your plugins with you.
     
  13. Offline

    TRNWes_

    I don't see what's happening here, lol
     
  14. Offline

    recon88 Retired Staff

    Sad to hear :/ Guess there will be a lot of plugins with malicious code then.
     
  15. Offline

    Jade Retired Staff

    Padeius Etoh You leave too, then, please. Unless you'd rather pay all the volunteers involved, I don't think you're in a place to whine.
     
  16. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    If you read everything we have to say, and still feel like that is how it happened... I have no more words for you.
     
  17. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    When was i whining? You must have a different definition of whining than I do but what ever. Oh and by the way, I have never quit the community I have professed to love so much. That would be you.
     
  18. Offline

    Jeyge

    You must have a different definition of "quit the community" than I do because they all seem to still be here posting.
     
    jorisk322, SeeD419, chakyl and 8 others like this.
  19. Offline

    Ribesg

    Much hate
    Such ignorance
    Wow
     
  20. Offline

    DHLF

    It seems as if some of those *haters* out there were stuck to bukkit in a way they cant think of living without it.
    So they are full of anger and *hit* anyone in sight.. without any reason..
    I cant get it!
     
  21. Offline

    Kainzo

    It's fact. The project was harassed. There's several other projects that feel the same way.

    There's a point to go to "doing your job" and then "being a dick" about things.


    I do hope that the Bukkit reformation from Curse is a beneficial one, if not there's #sponge in the works.
     
    Padeius Etoh likes this.
  22. Offline

    TheMintyMate

    Yes, you could argue this, but without any moderation, a budding Java coder can easily receive abuse from users. I feel that the moderation and monitored flow of communication was a wise move. Also, Bukkit was obliged to do this, as some threads can contain information relating to other organisations which may not follow the same precautionary steps as Bukkit.
    What I'm saying is; Bukkit monitored the flow of communication for the good of the Bukkit community and it's users. It also kept the forums focused solely on the subject at hand, which I feel is important for a subject related community. Otherwise, the forums might as well not exist, and everyone should just as might well go to Twitter or Facebook.

    - Minty
     
    squidicuz likes this.
  23. Offline

    Kainzo

    Bukkit took a stance of "hand holding" servers from the very beginning, this kind of cradling isnt necessary, it only yields more work overall.

    A good, active, community can manage itself, via ratings of plugins, feedback and what have you. It's not necessary to "bog" things down with an administrative queue system to check each resource. However, this requires a community and culture built around free thinking and a good reputation system. Something Bukkit didn't have at the get go.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but in this case, we could all see it coming.
     
  24. Offline

    TheMintyMate

    Kainzo
    Agreed, this would be the ideal community. But less face it - sadly there are people in the world who lack respect and are happy to post strong views, which could be offensive. Otherwise, links to other open source projects are not related to the subject of Bukkit. And yet people will post about it... Hence they had no choice but to apply systems, such as:
    - Minty
     
  25. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    I don't understand what you're trying to say. Yes, Bukkit was (and is being) harassed. The rest of your words don't make sense though.

    So... when there was a bot net created inside the community, the community should have been able to handle it just fine?

    No, you just took a 3 year break from the community you love so much.
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Offline

    Kainzo

    I can say that whoever would check a project like Heroes, would have almost "no idea" exactly was all in the package, so if there was something malicious, they would only know keywords, which means the approval process was at best "mostly" working. (To date after 3 years, Heroes is almost 700kb of code).

    Backdoors and malicious content could still get through, as decompiling jars isn't the "best" way to see the entire project and realistically will never be a 100% safeguard for the community.

    Successful start ups, mimic already well established systems and then curb the toolset to the practical use of the new system.

    Google Play and other "app" centers:
    https://developer.android.com/distribute/tools/launch-checklist.html

    There's several key things here that could have been used to further the DBO system that were unused because of lack of foresight, tools and experience.

    Hand holding servers is and always will be a bad idea. It breeds the typical mentality of "When will Bukkit update!" vs a thought-provoked response that we could have been training the server owners, plugin developers and other attendees to have in reserves from the beginning.

    I'm not attacking you or anyone at Bukkit personally for how things went down, I believe it was a great learning experience for all involved and I hope future communities seriously consider public image and community culture as something to hold in high regard.
     
  27. Offline

    feildmaster Retired Staff

    I can say as an ex-DBO staff, I have indeed looked over all of Heroes' code for malicious intent line by line. :)

    I agree they can still get through, humans are humans, but it IS the only way to see if there's anything malicious possibly embedded.

    That checklist is nice, we had one as well: http://wiki.bukkit.org/BukkitDev:Project_Submission_Guidelines

    Things like this will happen no matter how your project is run. I hope whoever comes after us comes to this realization quickly. :)

    I wish I could like certain contents of a post, instead of the full post in general.
     
  28. Offline

    Padeius Etoh

    Ya about sponge, have you seen the people roster, it looks like a "I quit bukkit because I was so burned out, but now ready for a new project club". Or a bukkit reunion club.
     
    daboross likes this.
  29. Offline

    eyamaz

    no, I already warned you. goodbye
     
    Cirno, jorisk322, Ribesg and 5 others like this.
  30. Offline

    Jade Retired Staff

    10/10 would moderate again
     
    CircuitSoft, lDucks, Cirno and 20 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page