Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by PeppeJ, May 3, 2011.
SAme here with CB744. My machine is also a dedicated server in Frankfurt, Germany. The connection is 10gbps and it has good connection to all major backbones in Germany as well :\
@EvilSeph where you at buddy! any word? did you guys or notch change the parameters which dictate chunk loading speed/bandwidth/radius?
Hi guys. I've done some looking around and come to a few conclusions.
Chunk loading speed has been capped at about 30 Chunks per second with the update to the 1.5 version of Minecraft.
Previous versions were loading chunks relative to your PC's ability to render these chunks and your connections ability to download the information. About 80 chunks per second was giving wonderful results when traveling through the world on a minecart in version 1.4. I'd been seeing speeds as high as 130 Chunks per second on a locally hosted server in version 1.3.
The problem is this cap on Chunk loading speed. While a majority of the Minecraft community has weak PCs and laptops and this imposed cap is freeing up their processing power to make the game smoother, it's quite the eyesore to those who have wonderful machines and are use to traveling at fast speeds with all the eyecandy on.
We need an option that allows up to control Chunk loading speeds. There are mods that have altered Java .class files to lower the chunk loading speed to boost FPS already. Since Notch has basicly forced this sort of thing on everyone we need a way to reverse it.
See this video for a visual representation of what is happening.
Amen! Exactly what I felt was going on, thanks so much for the proof. How hard would this be to up the cap in the code? or make my dreams come true and allow the chunk loading speed to be configurable in a yml? The previous was awesome, all our regulars have fast machines, fast ISP's and our server is on a 1gbps line. Chunks loaded extremely fast and you could see for miles. If the dev team implemented a way of controlling this, that would be awesome. I hate when stuff like this happens and gets hardcoded to appease users with extremely minimal hardware and a server being ran in their basement. Atleast give proper admins and users an option to revert!
Sorry for not replying. I keep opening the thread in a tab and then forgetting as I'm busy with something else.
So that's what you're talking about. That's hardly 'Bukkit sends chunks SLOW'.... people have been describing being able to walk normally and hit a chunk that doesn't load. Minecart rides being ruined by slow chunk loading. Really, unless you were flying the speed was a non-issue and still is. The only time I've had a minecart ride ruined by 'slow' chunk loading is due to the server not being able to keep up with the load it is experiencing, other times things are just fine.
I'll look into this, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's a client side limitation and there's nothing we can do. On top of that, I'm not sure if we even want to do anything about this.
Same as shown in the video
I felt this same problem since 1.5 too, even on my localhost...
But This must be a client problem, the new render optimizations that notch used must be messing up!
I also got this problem with my server its really annoying.
CPU: I7 2600 @3.4 GHz
GPU: Nvidia GTX 460 Hawk
Sounds like this might need to be raised at Mojangs Get Satisfaction page
The change was indeed in the client and is therefore not a Bukkit issue.
If you want to break down Notch's description of the "new rendering optimizations", he simply capped chunk loading speed. That's all he had to do to boost FPS and reduce jitter for many players. His feedback pages and twitter were flooded with praise from the community "Minecraft runs so much faster, I'm getting 20 FPS on Normal now!" These are the Vocal 14 year olds who are playing on a netbook at 5 fps prior to the change.
I honestly feel like going on a rant, but it'd be fruitless. Most of us play for multi player and already it's been cut down to help as many people as possible participate as both clients and hosts.
Two things I'd like to see in the native client. Firstly, an option for the Chunk cache to be increased in multi player. Currently it's at 441 chunks, while single player has been sitting at 1024 for ages. The reduced chunk caching is helpful server side if the players upload bandwith is low , or the clients CPU isn't up to the task of loading those chunks into the world and moving the player at a smooth reasonable pace by reducing load. All well and good but I want options and thankfully the Bukkit community has modifications to make this happen, for now.
Secondly and most importantly I want the option to increase chunk loading speed. 30 is just a kick in the face when I'm playing, as I tend to explore more than stand in one place and stack blocks. I like to climb to the highest point and take in the view, a view currently much reduced unless I stand still for an exteneded period of time, waiting. I run a server and when I need to travel quickly, It's just not possible. All of my equipment is up to the challenge and I'm royally frustrated with communicating my needs in the rabble of the Official Minecraft community pages.
I don't know a lick about altering or understanding Java .class files , but I'm sure I can get an editor and figure out what needs to be done, eventually. But I'd rather someone else who knows what they are doing tackle this.
New information for us all. I've read this before but it didn't register. Chunk updating is loosely tied to your FPS now. Higher FPS=higher chunk update speed.
I play with frame rate limited to monitor refresh rate, because anything more is a waste of your processing power. Minecraft doesn't register v-sync properly( at-least for myself and others) and has been defaulting to 30 FPS effectivly capping your chunk update speed as well. I've disabled the in-game v-sync and shot up to around 130 FPS while loading new bits of the world and was receiving Chunk updates in the range of 80-160 in SMP.
Keep in mind If I wasn't running my texture pack and the Bump-mapping and Depth of field modifications I'd be running at around 900FPS unlimited.
With that said, disable your v-sync and disable limit frame rate if you have it enabled and report if you had any improvements with a powerful computer.
One more thing I've noticed since we've started the Subject.
Max view-distance is about 175( at rest) in the 1.5 builds of the client. Could someone load up an older version say 1.3 or 1.4 and see what the max view distance in one direction is in those clients. I'm feeling the current render distance is less than those of the past by about 75-90 blocks. If someone could test this out I'll stop posting in this thread =p
Even though I've managed to get chunks to load faster they don't seem to be reaching out as far, and it really takes away from the game for me.
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
Thank you very much for your testing and posts, @Overvoltage - I'm glad I'm not the only one whos gameplay is effected by this. On paper it may seem like a minor detail, but like you said it really takes a hit on the immersion of the game. The smaller chunk loading radius is probably what's most noticeable for me, and yes, minecart rides that are suspended somewhat in the air are "ruined" by this load speed. Carts on the ground are fine, but once they are suspended and you can see a little further ahead of you on all sides, the slow chunk loading really takes away from the experience and immersion. I've already had v-sync and frame rate limiting off, I usually get around 200-300 fps. the loading is still slow as the other posters have been saying.
So @EvilSeph, is this entirely client side? If any part of it is server side, how much do I need to donate to see a build at some point in the future with control over these chunk loading parameters? Or, if it is 100% client side, would a client side modification be possible to pull more chunks and quicker? would a bukkit server allow a client to do that?
Thanks again guys
As I said above, FPS is being used to determine how many chunk updates you are capable of doing, so uncap your fps and v-sync where able.
I've connected to several bukkit servers I know of and I'm achieving reported chunk updated as high as 350 in some highly populated servers. There doesn't seem to be any limitations on the bukkit end of the equation.
This does not confirm that the reported chunk updates are to scale with reported amount. They could be limited to some arbitrary number, like 80, but the client still reports numbers in the hundreds.
I did a less that perfectly controlled test of world rendering by connecting to a server with a capped frame rate of 40 fps and 50 chunk updates. It took 2minutes 20 seconds to load the entire area from a standing position and achieve a 0-5 chunk update speed.
I then restarted the minecraft client and loaded the same position in the same server with an average framerate of 210 and chunk update speed of around 240. It took 58 seconds to load the area as above. Not a linear increase in speed, which indicates to me a cap is being applied that is not reported, but it's a substantial increase in performance when comparing the two.
Other than the "possible" cap on chunk-updates regardless of reported speeds I'm only seeing the max draw distance of 175 blocks in one direction as a less than desired limitation at the moment.
Now If I knew how to increase view distance beyond the already determined lengths I'd be having a great time. A 64Bit OS and Java shouldn't have any issues since there are not consumer level implementations that even come close to their limitations.
Beating a dead horse, but I'd rather put my thoughts down somewhere than have them constantly coming to mind.
Confirmed, max chunk update is equal to fps
1.4 had a better chunk loader
Isn't there a bug listed on the minecraft wiki where the F3 screen FPS display and chunk display were mistakenly showing the same number?
I can't get there right now, but I think it's in here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Version_history
yeah, "As of Beta 1.5, the FPS shows the same number as chunk updates."
So yeah, your fps, v-sync. fps limit options don't effect chunk updates speeds whatsoever, they just effect the reported speeds. So the chunk number being displayed is total bull. Mine hovers around 400-500 but I can tell you right now the actual chunk loading speed seems to be somewhere around 70-100.
is this in any way related to the post i recently made here? http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/chunks-not-loading-properly-in-bukkit-only.17523/
Hey I am also having a similar problem with chunk rendering and and players joining. We run a very powerful server PC with duel quad cores but when it comes to running our bukkit server one person on will cause 9% cpu add 2 more and its already at 30%+. On vanilla we have 4 people and it runs perfectly no errors at all. We dont even scrape 1% cpu with 4 people on. Internet is not the problem we have ruled it out it seems to only be bukkit. We also had no plugins running on bukkit at the time of testing.
Need help ASAP
bump, maybe this will be addressed with the up and coming 1.6 release. I want so many chunkzzzzzzzzz
1.6 update - "Added server property view-distance. Sets the radius of terrain updates (in chunks) to send to the players. Range 3-15, default 10"
@EvilSeph - I'm assuming (hoping) this server property setting will get carried over to bukkit once you guys have a 1.6 compatible build out? I reaaaaallly hope so
EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
@Overvoltage 1 h34|2d u 1i|2e c013|23d 73x7
(It's late) (17'5 1473)
I'm just glad the problem is now known and is in the works for customized functionality to be implemented for everyone.
Honestly there are so many nice changes in 1.6 I'm looking forward to updating to it on the server. The game needed a round of bug-repair-only updates.
testing bukkit #812 now. It has some major scheduler issues and broke just about all of our plugins, but it DOES add the view distance property to the server.properties, and when cranked to 15 you really can see almost forever.
Good to hear.
One more thing needs to be done; Fix CPU performance. I have reduced my plugins, nearly 10 of them, and while some still use MySQL I think my dedicated AMD Opteron 6128's should do the job.
10% per person on 1.5 was ridiculous.
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