Bukkit is dieing....We must save it!

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by EnderBrine101, Apr 9, 2015.

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    As many people know, bukkit is dieing. There is already msny threads, but they were locked. We cant let them tear apart our whole community! We have to help save bukkit. Try going back to bukkit 1.7.10 to show you fully support bukkit. Plugin developers! Carry on making plugins for 1.7.10. And most importantly. Players. You might think "1.8 is better why would I ever go back to 1.7?!" Well heres why:

    If im not mistaken, bukkit was the birth of modern minecraft servers (plugins, server mods etc, correct me if im wrong) and we must NOT let it die! We need to show them that they CANNOT take bukkit from this wonderful community it has grown. I, for one, will NOT let anything stand in my way. If this thread gets locked, im gonns creste a new one. My sccount gets banned - create a new acvount eith a new friend. I dont CARE untill bukkit is back. Dont get me started on all those Law and order issues. Im not sure sbout them.

    Finally, #SaveBukkit (On Twitter)
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

    @EnderBrine101 And how do you want to save it then?
    Got a team of lawyers working on a counter DMCA notice?

    And about your counter actions against thread deletion:
    We will keep locking.
    We will keep banning.
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    @timtower Do It like @md_5 and @thinkofdeath recode the whole project.

    Like I said I dont CARE about my account but we should at least keep the bukkit community together.

    <Edit by mrCookieSlime: Merged posts. Please don't double post. There is an Edit Button right next to the Date.>
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    mrCookieSlime Retired Staff

    nverdier and timtower like this.
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    Nope, they do not they just updated it
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    (No offence) but that would be a cheap copy of bukkit not the real deal. Anyways the hashtag #SaveBukkit has some posts on twitter. I actually think quite alot. Who was the creator again? I forget the name.
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

    @LPkkjHD While you said they recoded it.
    And where are we gonna get the developers for that then?
    Recoding everything is loads and loads of work.
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    Mojang could do it but :li heard something about the creator of bukkit not allowing them to do it?
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

    And why would Mojang do it then?
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    mrCookieSlime Retired Staff

    Yes. And whether or not it is illegal what they have done is questionable.
    To be honest, I cannot tell whether it is illegal or not as I have no idea about the laws in the USA.
    I already struggle getting familiar with the laws of my own country...

    And if you want to save the Bukkit Project you would need two things for sure

    a) a Plan.
    b) information about the Situation.

    I am not trying to make you feel bad or helpless, I am just being realistic here.
    LPkkjHD likes this.
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    The bukkit community is still here. We just need to convince people NOT to leave. Apprently mojang wanted to update bukkit, and apprently they own it. I dont knoe full details though.
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    hey I don't write this stuff

    Does anyone know how much usable code the bukkit project has?
    Has anyone an plan to update the project?

    If there are no people who say "We gonna update the project" then the projcet will die slowly (the forum will be active for quite a while).
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    mrCookieSlime Retired Staff

    Yes, Mojang owned it since a long time already.
    And Dinnerbone did in fact say he is going to update Bukkit himself, however that is all he said about this topic so far.
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    Dinnerbrone DID want to updated it but I was reading another thread and someone (like i said i dont know full details) wouldnt let him.do it.
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    mrCookieSlime Retired Staff

    Source? :p
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    You guys post so fast. I had an armsourgery last week I cant write so fast :'(
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    timtower Moderator Moderator

    @EnderBrine101 That is a known post. He hasn't said anything after that though.
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    bwfcwalshy Retired Staff

    Dinnerbone did say he would update, then the DMCA came into play and there were no more details on the subject. Spigot have been forking Bukkit and changing it so things like Bungeecord work. Now that the Bukkit team has left Spigot had to update it themselves without a fork and also find a way to not get into many legal issues. They have you make the jar yourself and host the tools in a country (Cannot remember which one) this keeps the, out of the dmca trouble in the usa. As for Bukkit, we as a community are still here, we still have the good old spam bots and we are still helping server owners and developers day after day. We also still have BukkitDev up so that everyone can keep downloading their favourite plugins. The only things not functional on Bukkit now are the downloads and the JavaDocs but there are tons of mirrors available if you need them.

    I wouldn't say Bukkit is dead at all, it is smaller but not dead! There is no way to stop the community splitting, there are so many new server jars coming out. Everyone will choose their favourite and that will split up the community, for example I am going to Trident (Will still be active here, but mainly on Trident) but others may go to Sponge, Rainbow, Glowstone and the many others. I think the Bukkit community will still alive for a while still until the community all split up and we will see what happens after that.

    These are just my opinions on this, everyone has their own.
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    Lolmewn Retired Staff

    No. Not gonna happen. Na-ah. Nope. Been there, done that.
    Bukkit's pretty dead. The community behind it will live on for a bit, but will likely eventually die as well when other server mods become more popular (read: Sponge/rainbow/trident w/e). No point pouring in hours and hours into a project that will never live again.
    Mre30 likes this.
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    Although, these forums seem to be a communication bridge between all of the children branches of the Bukkit project. I wouldn't say it'll be entirely useless when Sponge, Rainbow, or Trident become more powerful.
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    @LordDarthBob, most of these projects are actually working to make sure that bukkit plugins are compatible.
    LordDarthBob likes this.
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    At the mention of my thread that I made months ago (how the heck did you find that? :p ) I looked on the first and second page; the name Dinnerbone isn't so much as mentioned on either of them. Although I'm a little surprised you mentioned that thread, the moment I saw the title of this thread I was reminded of my own attempt to "save Bukkit." Or rather, be moral support while others do the work.

    Not much point in restating everything others have said so far, so here's my advice to you: be happy with the little remainder of the Bukkit community, feel free to even make some plugins (I think most Bukkit plugins work with Spigot just fine, and what @LordDarthBob and @Tecno_Wizard are saying means they'll probably work with other mods in some time). Instead of hoping and waiting for the real Bukkit-made CraftBukkit to come back, and if you want to run your server (if you have one) on some form of CraftBukkit, you should hop over to Spigot site and use that. Works fine for me.
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    The likeyhood of the true craftbukkit coming back is little to none. These forums will live on through traffic of all of the bukkit derivatives though.
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    Time and time again, people are confusing "exists" with "alive". The community still exists, it is not alive. There is not a single member of the Bukkit team working on Bukkit, old versions of CraftBukkit are illegal to distribute, and the forums have become infested with "Bukkit alternatives" - the major one being Spigot. You know, the good old server mod that is:

    a) At best extremely shady and at worst illegal
    b) Insecure
    c) Unstable
    and d) Managed by people who would rather close bug reports than consider them bugs

    Spigot is not the answer. Spigot takes the unbelievable amount of time and effort put in by developers who just want their code to be used in a valid GPL product, and then gives them a big "fuck you". Even if Spigot is technically legal (which I really doubt) then it is no more than a loophole, and it is definitely against the spirit of the law. You're meant to be free to do pretty much whatever you want with a GPL product - including but not limited to distributing it to people. Guess what you can't do with Spigot? That's right, you can't distribute it. How is that freedom? It isn't.

    Now I see people wanting Bukkit to come back to life. I can see why, and it's a lovely idea, but it isn't going to happen. Ever. The only good thing that can happen to Bukkit now is that it's finally left to rest in peace, but some people still aren't done looting the corpse it seems (gotta love ad revenue, eh?). Most of the time, these people are viewing the DMCA takedown as wrong, because they are ignorant of the situation. The developers don't want (Craft)Bukkit to be destroyed, they simply want to it be free. As I mentioned above, Spigot is not free - it's simply using smoke and mirrors to appear that way. CraftBukkit never can be free, until you reprogram it not to use NMS code, and that's a little something called Glowstone. Also worth noting is that I've seen one of the major Bukkit developers claim that the Bukkit API is a dead-end because of all the changes Mojang are making, and the amount of work it'll take to rework Bukkit to cope with those changes. I don't know about you, but he definitely knows more about it than I do, so it might be worth listening to him.

    These forums have far outlived most of their purposes. The only real purpose that they still serve is to line the pockets of Curse with ad revenue. These forums exist, but they are not alive. It's time to move on, and give up on the foolish delusions. These types of reactions are fairly typical for when someone you know dies, so I don't see why the same can't apply to a project too. Denial won't bring anything back to life, and the only thing that can help you is moving on.

    Bukkit is dead, may it rest in peace.
    Tecno_Wizard and teej107 like this.
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    (a) I'll get to that later.
    (b/c) I don't think there's much evidence that one is more unstable than the other or more insecure, but whatever.
    (d) Personally I find spigot staff a lot easier to deal with than the old bukkit staff.

    Well to be fair the old craftbukkit devs deliberately hid large parts of the update process from the community, making it so only they can update craftbukkit (NMS mappings etc). Regards the spirit of the law, lets first talk about the spirit of open source, and that is that you're donating code for free under a perpetually free license, so if you want to use that argument then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Regards distributing spigot, you can distribute the source, the entire update process for updating spigot for new versions of minecraft is open, and in theory anyone can do it, without having to repeat a lot of the work of creating the NMS mappings.

    You might be right that the bukkit API is dead as far as dealing with the next version of Minecraft (lets be honest though, Mojang have been promising new wonderful features that would break or deprecated the Bukkit API horribly for years, and has mostly failed to deliver), but for now it works fine, and there are thousands of plugins available for it which add all sorts of wonderful features to it. I wouldn't like to speculate on what the retired Bukkit devs wanted for it, you'd have to ask them, and whilst your at it, ask them how the current situation is supposed to lead to that.

    If that's the case, why haven't you moved on? I only came here because someone claimed that the forum requires https access erroneously, and now I'll be gone again.

    Should probably mention I'm on Spigot's IRC staff, so you can consider my opinions completely biased, and throw them away if you wish, speaking of moving on, I'll be gone again.
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    I was specifically referring to this bug report: https://hub.spigotmc.org/jira/browse/SPIGOT-299

    I don't understand how their deobfuscation of the NMS code was 'hidden'? This is something they did themselves, not something that was provided to them and they kept to themselves.

    I fail to see how this contradicts my point.

    It's really not free. So long as you can't distribute the final product - the jar that actually works - then the program comes with strings attached, meaning it's not free. It's true anyone can do it, but that doesn't make it fully free.

    I actually have spoken to a few of them. They seem to want what I want too - Bukkit to just die in peace, as its time is done. As to how the current situation is supposed to lead to that, well that's the point I've been trying to make. People won't let it die in peace.

    I have moved on :) I still post sometimes, but nowhere like I used to. I don't really consider myself a true member of this community anymore, and I have my own things to do. I only come here when I'm bored and have nothing better to do, and to rant about these such things!


    Walshy - Fixed a quote
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2015
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    Perhaps Bukkit is dead and should be left to rest in peace, but it's not entirely purposeless. At least not yet. There are still servers that run on Spigot's CB, regardless of whether it's a safe solution, which still gives Bukkit plugins a little bit longer life. Eventually the plugins will become too far outdated to be usable and developers will have to use a new API, but what may come sooner is perhaps something like Sponge or Trident with some miraculous Bukkit Bridge. A bridge will provide some cushion time for developers to switch their plugins over, and then we can all officially move on when everyone's comfortable with that.

    And for those who think Spigot has won: if Spigot is really so legally/functionally unstable, all it probably takes is some devastating crash or exploit for people to start looking for alternatives, see this fully-functional Sponge/Trident and go there. Of course that would be when they're off the ground, but I hear they're still working hard.
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