Bukkit - DMCA What's going on.

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by Nateb1121, Sep 3, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    Nateb1121

    So, I'm sure many of you have seen the DMCA take down notice on dl.bukkit.org, this post will serve as a quick tl;dr for a lot of people, I hope.

    What's going on is Wolf isn't trying to piss Bukkit off, really Wolf is drawing attention to the situation and trying to get some word from Mojang, it seems. Wolfs licence says to use my software you need to have your code open, and by code he literally means all of it, including Mojangs.

    In order for Mojang to update Bukkit like they want they can do two things.
    1) Release the MineCraft server code as per Wolf's licence
    2) Rewrite all of the code Wolf has committed

    Wolf is attempting to get Mojang to "open up a bit", not trying to ruin Bukkit.

    Granted, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert on this manner. I'm not sure if Wold retains copyright ownership over the code or if Bukkit does since he pushed it to the repo.

    Wolf is playing a strategy game with Mojang, using the very legal channels that Mojang could use against us. Well played.


    It's unfortunate though because there seems to be a lot of leaglize that will fly around regarding who's right and who's wrong. This is worth a read: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/2fdts0/gpl_you_keep_using_that_word_i_do_not_think_it/
     
  2. Offline

    Mayor_Mike

    Finally someone who answers this in an unbiased way. 5 stars to you.
     
    pookeythekid likes this.
  3. Offline

    Alshain01

    I call bull. His move doesn't really hurt Mojang at all and probably won't encourage them to open up anything. They could go on without Bukkit. It only hurts this community. As far as I'm concerned he is a traitor to this community and the project.

    No, either he is a complete idiot to not see what would happen (which I doubt) or he is intentionally trying to kill it, which is a betrayal.
     
    Blkscorpion2 likes this.
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    Necrodoom

    Alshain01 betrayal of who? I don't see any claims he is turning against his own team.
     
  5. Offline

    Afforess


    It seems incredibly selfish to demand a developer (wolverness) should give up their work (bukkit code he has contributed) for nothing in return. In fact, its worse than nothing in return, Mojang will profit from his work (in the form of increased sales) and wolverness has received nothing.

    If anything Mojang should be called out for their blatant theft of other developer's work and profiteering. It is literally criminal and wolverness is in the right to DMCA them.
     
    XD 3VIL M0NKEY likes this.
  6. Offline

    Alshain01

    But that's different. If that was what this was about, then fine. But he has been pushing commits for how long and didn't have a problem with it until now? He seemed to be ok with it before.

    He's just using that as an excuse, we all know that isn't what this is about.
     
  7. Offline

    Afforess

    Because no one knew "bukkit" was owned by Mojang until recently. Please don't throw the hiring the developers link from years ago at me. That never said the codebase was part of the deal.

    It doesn't matter what the "excuse" is, wolverness owns the rights to his work. He can choose to destroy it if he so decides.
     
  8. Offline

    bastion

    A. The codebase is not owned by mojang, unless each contributor has signed over copyright of the code they contributed mojang does not own it. They may own control of the project, ie; github repo, forums, name tradmark, but the codebase is owned individually by the authors of that code. Whats more mojang has never said they owned the codebase, they in artfully said they owned bukkit, there is no legal description of what they were claiming to actually own. From the tweet by jeb, you can surmise they were stating that evilseph did not have the right to shutdown/codefreeze bukkit with out discussion because mojang has an ownership stake in the bukkit project. Not what they said but easily what they meant.

    B. WW cannot destroy his work, it is part of a project, he is claiming the GPL that bukkit is licensed under is not valid because of the code used in it is not also GPL. He has every right to do that, but he cannot take back the commits he has made to the bukkit project with out a court order. If he did destroy his work that would be as illegal as he is saying the entire project is.
     
  9. Offline

    Afforess

    I agree with everyone thing you said. If what I wrote earlier didn't imply that, then I will state it clearly here. You are correct.
     
  10. Offline

    asofold

    Project hijacked, community of server owners and plugin developers also hijacked, thanks. This proves that Mojang not wanting GPL is the right thing.
    Bukkit wouldn't lead to Mojang profiting more or less if this "modding Mojang games community" would be "totally free" or "owned by Curse or Santa Claus" instead. Pretty embarassing, but a lesson to judge licenses and trust my own impression about people, if you ask me. Probably would have turned towards another mod lead by reasonable people, if i had understood the licensing bomb 2 years or more ago (~ all provided this dcma gets through at all).

    ----
    Edit:

    To clarify, it's probbaly wrong to put all "them" into one spot, because EvilSeph and Wolverness might have had completely different motivation on this matter, which probably also is the reason for the "ending Bukkit" thing and some kind of "team decision".

    Assume I.
    a) EvilSeph declares the end randomly.
    b) Mojang stops it and seizes the repository.
    c) Complaints about Mojang are mostly bullshit.

    Assume II.
    a) Mojang seizes the repository.
    b) EvilSeph puts the team in and they decide to end it.
    c) Mojang claims the others are the bad ones.
    d) Complaints about Mojang "closing the open source" would have some base.

    I don't know enough to really judge it, but due to a lot of absence of communication from side of Bukkit-lead insiders, i have to assume that they either don't even know or don't want to tell, which forces me to start taking sides, e.g. with assuming that I. applies, as it's what we can tell from already present statements. Concerning the hijacking of code, i am sure that Mojang does not need to continue the process of allowing contributors to change the repository of a "potentially poisened project" at hand, so they probably put a stop to things first, then go updating it at home and push changes - i don't see a problem with that if I. applies.
     
  11. Offline

    Paxination

    I am sorry, but I have to agree with Alshain01

    Mojang isnt going to open up their code at all for any reason. If they do, they wont be able to profit from it. And it will be a total legal nightmare if some one was to step up and try to claim the source.

    Why would WW think that placing a DMCA take down notice would change that? Even in the slightest?

    Mojang knows that craftbukkit contains decompiled mc server code in it. They are not gonna authorize it because of my previous reason. They are trying to protect their work. They liked the idea of the community and bukkit so they bought it to help them protect their code and to keep an eye on the community. To keep it alive.

    They are intentionally ignoring the fact that their code is in it. They are not gonna push a lawsuit of any kind and just shut this down. So what is the point of the DMCA notice now? Its not needed. Mojang doesnt want to open up their code, but they are not gonna push any lawsuits if we decompile the code. If they were going to, it would have been done a long time ago.

    WW is just doing more harm than good at this point.

    But I think that there is more beind the scenes than is being mentioned. With most/all the bukkit staff retiring, it just looks too obvious to me that some of this was already planned or discussed behind the scenes.

    I just dont get why that many of the staff would just walk out. Some have even said that there is no way for bukkit to continue. Funny thing is, there is. The same way its been going all this time. Bukkit including decompiled mc server code in CB while mojang looks the other way. Its worked all these years. And it will still work. As long as mojang doesnt file a law suit, and that isnt gonna happen either.
     
    pookeythekid and vokisa like this.
  12. Offline

    xyfuss

    I would just wish that i could play with my friends on my bukkit server i payed for ._.
     
  13. Offline

    Paxination

    who says you cant?
     
  14. Offline

    xXRamboWolfXx

    How does mojang have to do with bukkit? bukkit is an idependent server software for minecraft, im still lost...
     
  15. Offline

    pookeythekid

    Paxination I agree, it could live on if it just went as it always has gone. However there's one slight (I mean "slight" sarcastically) problem: the entire Bukkit staff quit. I suppose most of them would choose to come back if they received word that Bukkit was going to continue as it always had, but until they do, it's gonna be pretty tough for things to be the same again.

    xXRamboWolfXx, CraftBukkit is technically an independently developed server software for Minecraft. However it is dependent on Minecraft's vanilla server software for its API. But the major thing that answers your question is that Mojang has a whole lot to do with Bukkit; they bought the project, 2-3 years ago in fact. However Mojang did not really purchase CraftBukkit (the software itself). CB's code belongs to those who developed it.

    Now for my contribution to the thread:

    I personally don't think the DMCA is either right or wrong. As far as what I've read and understand--and I've done a whole lot of reading for the past few weeks--Wolvereness has the right to revoke his code for whatever reason, as long as he has the right to; and as far as I'm aware of, he does have that right.

    Just as some restaurants have the right to refuse service to anyone, Wolfe has the right to revoke his code at any time. I really don't care what the heck in the universe his reasons were for issuing the DMCA, all I care about is that he wants to do what he wants with his code.

    If you want to give me more information on the big tangled mess of license crap, I'm open to discussion. This is just my view on the whole thing. Sure, I am bummed that CraftBukkit is most likely gone, but all good things must come to an end eventually.
     
  16. Offline

    Paxination

    But to end like this? I am just ill to the bone that they decided to go this route instead of just being honest and saying "HEY WE ARE TIRED OF DOING THIS WITHOUT MOJANGS SUPPORT, WE ARE DONE!" But no, Evilsephs reason in his closing post was because of the EULA. Which has always been there, and which has never changed.

    Oh and which one of my post are you refering to? If it was my previous one, i was trying to get the previous poster to understand he can still run his bukkit server that he paid for. He has 2 options, either run bukkit 1.7, or run 1.8 vanilla. We are running both to satisfy our community.

    If your refering to my way earlier post when I mention about the project could have just kept going as it was as it always had despite the EULA, this was a statement based on the idea if they had not tried to close the doors based on the EULA, before the shit hit the fan (DMCA).
     
  17. Offline

    pookeythekid

    Paxination Lol, it seems like such a long time ago that I made that post. It's been pretty long days and pretty long weeks for me lately. I'm pretty sure I was referring to your most recent post before my post.

    Anyway, true, it is pretty sad that Bukkit/CraftBukkit is ending so suddenly without 100% clear reason. And I suppose I shouldn't exactly be going around saying that it doesn't really matter; I shut down my server right after the DMCA was issued (but not entirely because of it), and at that time I barely even knew what a DMCA was. It's a lot easier for me not to be so concerned since I no longer have a server that I wish to live on. But nonetheless bad things happen, and this is definitely one of them.

    Edit: Wait no, not your most recent post before mine. I meant that big long one right before mine. ;P
     
  18. Offline

    Sofus Lynge

    Bukkit! don't stop it here!!
     
  19. Offline

    pookeythekid

    Sofus Lynge A little bit too late for that. But if you don't care who made it, there's a Bukkit and CraftBukkit 1.8 version available at Spigot. I'm not sure if they plan to continue the builds after 1.8, but at least it gives people a longer period of time to switch over to a new mod.

    Note: I'm not implying that Spigot Bukkit = Bukkit Bukkit. Spigot developers made the 1.8 build, not Bukkit developers. I didn't read Spigot's full post on it (because it's insanely long), but I think there are slight changes in the API as well. If you're a server owner who doesn't write his own plugins, then you should be fine with it.
     
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