3rd party projects and overall feedback

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by RingOfStorms, Dec 19, 2013.

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    So recently I was banned from the IRC for stating that someone should get help when using bukkit. I only said three things before getting banned so it is pretty short, you can see here:

    Little background:
    xXMaTTHDXx was asking for help on one of his plugins and out of the blue EvilSeph told Matthd that no one could help him because he was not using Bukkit. Matthd continued to ask if he changed back quickly to craftbukkit if he could get help. That is when I commented yes and that is is pretty stupid system.

    Soon after when Matthd continued to ask for help after saying he switched EvilSpeh turned him down again saying that no one can help him. I then responded with "EvilSeph: And why can't he? If he is using bukkit he isn't breaking the rules anymore" And quickly got banned.

    Now this isn't really about me and my ban, but about the treatment towards other projects that extend the bukkit project. Granted, the ban I received seems pretty out of place and a result of Evil's ragemode towards the mention of other projects, and I don't see why that type of ban should continue.

    So at this point I find the treatment toward other projects outrageous and childish. Bukkit is an open source project and is known to be "open to improvements." However, as soon as anything breaks bukkit's rules it gets down casted, and if it ever makes it to another build it is deemed "unofficial" and unsupported. However, most of the changes that are made in these supposed horrible builds are good changes that improve performance and give better configuration for the server. Now I'm not saying bukkit has to make these changes themselves, but bukkit shouldn't be down casting other projects simply because they to meet the bukkit regulations.

    The other problem is the treatment of other people who even go as far as mentioning the name of other builds. Getting banned for saying that we can't help you if you use -snip- build is pretty dumb and doesn't really embody what bukkit is supposedly about.

    From the about us page states "Bukkit is an up-and-coming Minecraft Server mod that will completely change how running and modifying a Minecraft server is done - making managing and creating servers easier and providing more flexibility. ...built from the ground up we've focused on performance, ease-of-use, extreme customisability and better communication between the Team and, you, our users." (http://forums.bukkit.org/pages/about-us/)
    This is the first statement on the about us page, and it seems that since it was created, the message has been ever scewed by the administration from the bukkit team. There is minimal communication about how the internals and background of bukkit development progresses on updates, little customizability past the strict control of the bukkit regulations, and little flexibility beyond the lock down on anything BUT the bukkit API.

    Within the rest of the About us page there are many occurrences of the use of "I" that deviates from the "we" and "us." I'm not sure who the "I" is referring to, but at the time of writing there were many references to a supportive and communicative community, along side a an easily extendable platform. (Here is a copy of the about us page at the time of writing this post: http://pastebin.com/Revqfuc4)

    Another quote from the about us page: "For developers: one of the biggest advantages Bukkit has over other Minecraft mods is how extensible and easily customizable it is. This advantage is further extended by our design choice to keep in the mind the possibility of 3rd party Minecraft servers needing a modding and plugin interface. That being said, when any 3rd party developed Minecraft server becomes stable, Bukkit will be there to allow our collection of plugins to work with them too through a new interface, without any work required for the plugin author to make it compatible."
    Nowadays, this statement sounds fairly falsified. Even though it doesn't say Bukkit will support other 3rd party projects, it also didn't say they would be targeted and scrutinized.

    At this point this post is fairly lengthy and I want to hold true to this sections purpose to improving and providing feedback. There are most likely many other areas of the Bukkit site that can be quoted from that show what the bukkit community should be, but clearly isn't. Now since I've pointed out some of the problems, I'll provide a few solutions that I think will be beneficial to the community as a whole:
    • Better communication overall: Better communication is not just more updates on the update process of bukkit, that I understand should be kept at a reasonable distance, but a more well mannered transaction of comments between people within the bukkit community, as well as people in other projects that dedicate their time to making a better minecraft experience.
    • Better attitude and support towards 3rd party projects that extend and use the open source bukkit projects, or may not extend bukkit projects. There is no need to target 3rd party projects, or exclude them from discussions in the bukkit project.
    • Attempt to take negative toned feedback or complaints in a positive manner. In this case feedback includes forum posts, irc chat, 3rd party builds from bukkit projects, and any other form of feedback. Most of the time feedback will include either a complaint or a way to fix a problem. This feedback should be considered discussed by several people before getting shutdown. Chances are, good will come from it.
    • Really focus on performance, or remove the promises of a optimized platform from things like the about us page or other sources. A few 3rd party builds were created to address performance problems, and they work. As I said above, 3rd party builds can be a form of feedback. Things like performance and optimization should be included in the bukkit project itself, despite its deviation from vanilla minecraft. It only takes a few hours for some 3rd party builds to update because they are simple improvements that can be addressed in bukkti itself.
    • Better attitude towards expanding and implementing the minecraft server. I realize that an API can only cover so many things, especially in the minecraft environment. But limiting and making it extremely hard to make cool additions to the server with version checks and errors is not the way to go if a flexible platform is being provided. Obviously plugins can break servers or corrupt things when they are not made to par, but that project alone should be penalized and taken down till it is updated appropriately with necessary version checks in itself, not penalizing everyone.
    Now I realize not everyone will agree with the things I've stated as possible solutions, but instead of saying that I'm completely wrong, maybe you can come up with another alternative to some of the problems and really focus on resolving some of the ever pressing issues with this project and its community.
    I do hope this post's thread and replies can be productive and it isn't closed from simple disagreements. Bukkit staff really needs to be more open to feedback and suggestions, even if it is on the unneeded sensitive topic of 3rd party builds.
    slayr288 and Godwar101 like this.
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    As mentioned in previous posts, we do not discuss bans on the forums. While we fully welcome constructive criticism and feedback, blatantly attacking the project is not acceptable. Not only have you approached this in an uncivil and unacceptable manner, but you are also instigating flamebait and breaking several of our rules in a single post. The points you have brought up have been addressed many times before, and while you may disagree, we have provided out reasoning. As such, this thread is now locked.

    We do not shine other projects in a negative light or have any negative attitude toward them, we however are under no requirement to support any other project beside our own and if you choose not to use our product you accept that we do not need to support you. We have no affiliation with those projects and cannot support software that is not made by us. I do not spend my volunteer time here to listen to people providing negative feedback which is not based in reality and expecting me to listen when I could be paying attention to improving the project with people who actively contribute in a positive way. If you really want to get our attention, contribute in a positive manner and leave your negative attitude at the door.

    Merry Christmas.
    Ivan likes this.
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