Pemissions vs GroupManager

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by andrew pearson, Feb 26, 2011.

?

Which is better!

  1. Permissions

    56.3%
  2. GroupManager

    43.8%
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  1. Offline

    andrew pearson

    I really want someone to tell me which on is better and why I should one or the other!
    Permissions ( I'm use to its layout and about every plugin supports it)
    Group Manager ( New Kid on block and is telling me that Permissions is dead and I need to move on)
    I have essentails installed since the plugin author for Permissions drop out and let my server crippled!

    Please help! and If you need me too I will more infomation!
     
  2. Offline

    Afforess

    Both plugins use YML, and YML sucks. But GM sucks less.
     
  3. Offline

    Johannes

    Someone else picked up permissions development for now, aptly naming the version 'phoenix': http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/admn-dev-permissions-v2-4-phoenix-rebirth-of-the-original-451.5974/

    I personally prefer permissions because group manager will re-format the permissions yml file every time it saves. This jams all permissions onto one line for groups/users as opposed to seperate lines, which I find far easier to look at.

    I just prefer managing the text file manually as opposed to through the console or in-game, and I like to have comments (for example to keep track of what each permission node does) and group manager removes those each time it saves.

    I honestly would use GM if it included a 'readability' option that retained comments and saved permissions as one per line.
     
  4. Offline

    Soul Reaper

    The reformat is really annoying, but I can live with it. The ability to add permissions ingame is a real + for me
     
  5. Offline

    garglebutt

    Permissions reads a hand edited flat file and, as of recent builds, allows you to reload the permissions in game to apply changes. It is fairly featureless in terms of interface but it it is a robust implementation.

    We now have the choice of Permissions in two flavours, 2.0 and 2.1+ with compatibility for new features such as multiverse being supported by developers. This has had uneven support but is settling down in good hands by the looks.

    GroupManager extends existing work in Permissions to add an, at first, somewhat convoluted command set to apply permission updates instantly in game. It spams your log with frequent messages confirming data has been backed up (pet hate) and it has suffered from erratic quality in updates. There is also a degree of ego in the dissing of Permissions which I find distasteful.

    GroupManager is part of Essentials (same plugins with different names) but otherwise is mostly used to hook Permissions compatible plugins via its FakePermissions plugin. Unfortunately GroupManager rewrites the permissions flat file into a format that is not backwards compatible with Permissions; I think the KISS principle isn't used enough in software development.

    With the intention to move permissions handling into bukkit, both Permissions and GroupManager will become largely irrelevant. Given the overall level of support Permissions has, I'd like to see the effort in competing plugins merged to polish one plugin rather than squabbling.

    Groups is a frontend for Permissions which adds a simple set of commands to allow and deny permissions instantly in game. It does what it does very neatly.

    I'd like to see more consideration done on a feature rich front end for permissions support because that is all that remains in the plugin space in the long term.
     
  6. Offline

    Phaedrus

    Permissions all the way for me. Most people that think it's broken or sucks just don't have the skill needed to make it work properly. That's unfortunate but if you can't grasp setting up permissions what chance do you have in fiddling with the dozen or so other plugins you might want to use?

    I can't wait for the official permissions implementation. A GUI front end to mask the complexities of yaml will do wonders for usability and still retain the powerful fine grained functionality. Plus it will provide a much needed standard to target.
     
  7. Offline

    aehoooo

    8/7. That's what fucked up bukkit. If one of then was really wining it would be ok. But have a 50-50 split really made bad things.

    I dont blame groupmanager for that. When it was realeased, permissions was unupdated, buged, and didnt seem to have niji attention. They released groupmanager and sudenly permission began to have updates in a roll again.
    Now every plugin is split, many are not full compatible, we have this ridiculous war.

    God, I really hope bukkit native permissions gets implementyed soon. I'm sick of all this, and I see many people ehave same way.
     
  8. Offline

    Afforess

    Clearly I'm not qualified then, since I hate YML, and botch it all the time.
     
  9. Offline

    RustyDagger

    Permissions all the way for the simple fact i find the creator of groupmanger rude and obnoxious. The his plugin title should be changed (and him warned) because it is misleading server owners. not to mention that fact they who is he to say a plugin they he had no part in the making of is dead to me that says arrogant A hole. The Permission nodes for group manager are all only single and not nested into groups of commands like they should be making handing out permissions for it a real mess.

    Permissions 2.1 is where its at its clean simple and not made by some rude prick it works very well and the file is clean and easy to use.

    Thats just my view on the whole matter You should form you own My view is very harsh and a lot of people don't like it.

    Lol Afforess You just got to take care when editing it i count spaces a lot i know the number of spaces for each indent and its not that hard LOL I'm sure if you took more than 1 min to edit the file You would be fine.
     
  10. Offline

    Afforess

    I'm not defending GroupManager - but have you seen of Niju's posts lately? They've been just as bad.

    If I wasn't already neck deep in maintaining 9 plugins, I'd fork Permissions, switch to XML, and release it.
     
  11. Offline

    tremor

    since group manager and essentials building it directly into their system... i've had nothing but problems.. permissions was simple and effective. group manager, claims using MEMORY is more efficient, well not if you have limited memory to begin with running a game that is a memory hog...
     
  12. Offline

    andrew pearson

    I hate the way the group manager guy is hateful torward the premissions plugin
     
  13. Offline

    RustyDagger

    Niji is no doubt a bit pissed at all the crap going on I know i would be At 1 point i think she had like 12 plugins So stress would of been a factor just needs people to get off her ass and let her do her own thing for a bit.
     
  14. Offline

    andrew pearson

    I'm turning back to premissions thanks everyone!
    Next question is Essentrials or Other Plugins
     
  15. Offline

    anon

    Next question should be: permissions 2.0, 2.1 or 2.4

    yes 2.4 is newer, but most of plugins suport 2.0 :D
     
  16. Offline

    RustyDagger

    2.1 i would say and not essentials i would say hukle is best
     
  17. Offline

    andrew pearson

    ok so isnt 2.4 backwards compadable?
    --- merged: Feb 27, 2011 4:49 AM ---
    can you post a link rusty?
     
  18. Offline

    Phaedrus

    It is botch-able, no doubt. It's very strict and demanding, and wouldn't have been my first choice for a format destined to be used by the average human being. That said, if you have notepad++ with coloring, and you mind it's rules about tabs, indentation, closing apostrophes, and commas, brackets, etc and check it with a parser. It does work.... and once you accept it, it does make sense. It's just punishing in its strictness.
     
  19. Offline

    andrew pearson

    Here my input on any YML, HTML, XML, or any other ML it just takes getting used to
     
  20. Offline

    Afforess

    Lol. Give me XML any day. Heck, plain text even.
     
  21. Offline

    garglebutt

    Search for "Permissions Phoenix". 2.4 is largely a fixed up version of 2.1 so look for plugins that support 2.0 or preferably 2.1.
    --- merged: Feb 27, 2011 5:04 AM ---
    Plugins that include everything except the kitchen sink are good to get started with but from observation it pays to think about the features you want and find plugins that each only do a few things but do them well.

    Today I'm running: CrowdControl, dynmap, Groups, KitPlugin, LWC, MultiVerse, MyWarp, Netstats, Permissions, Persistence, SpawnControl, Spells, Stargate, WorldEdit, WorldGuard.

    Tomorrow, who knows!
     
  22. Offline

    andrew pearson

    lol i'm running: Dynmap, Permissions, WorldEdit, WorldGuard, MyWarp, MyHome, Ichat, Iconnomy, I need a general plugin but I think i'll stick with essentrals for now,
     
  23. Offline

    RustyDagger

  24. Offline

    TnT

    All those reasons are exactly why it should never be used as a config file for the masses. Case in point - read these forums for a day, well over half the problems are with the yml format.
    If the config file cannot be idiot proof, it should not be used as anything users can touch.

    My statements aren't a "Permissions vs GM" thing, it is industry best practice to have idiot proof config files for any software, no matter what it is used for. I strongly recommend any dev to take that approach with any software they develop - whether it be for Bukkit, or something else entirely.
     
  25. Offline

    jwideman

    They both have their pros and cons:
    GM has really nice ingame management.
    Permissions doesn't spam the shit out of your log.
    GM is supported via a wrapper by any plugin using Permissions 2.0
    A lot of plugins have switched to only using Permissions 2.4
    GM doesn't support multiworlds.
    Having to create a config file for each world is stupid, and has caused confusion.

    Using the behavior of a plugin author as a basis for not using or supporting their plugins is for those more interested in forum drama than I.
     
  26. Offline

    Phaedrus

    I completely agree, however I will defend the bukkit teams choices because I know the reasoning, which is thus:

    - It is a nicely human readable format. Lists and nesting mean that things are cleanly organized and uniform.
    - It's picky-ness means that there is much less chance of garbage data being entered into the system. It chokes right away instead of 10 minutes or an hour into the apps run.
    - Once you understand the rules it is logical to work with.
    - It is perfect for a GUI interface to use on the backend, which is the end goal for bukkits permission implementation.

    That said, I'm puzzled by the choice of YAML by other plugin devs who could have just as easily used txt files for their small 4 line config files.
     
  27. Offline

    jwideman

    It is a natural instinct to conform. Someone sets a standard, and others follow it without even knowing why. This also explains fashion trends and other fads.
     
  28. Offline

    blutherz

    i dont like developer who flames other, but ok they are developer...a lot of skill in code but nothing in social...

    So i hope both plugins will be gone soon in case bukkit will have its own system.
     
  29. Offline

    turtlelink2

    Personally I like groupmanager, because the changes are instant, however the creator is a jerk the way he tries to get you to use his plugin, still I vote for groupmanager.
     
  30. Offline

    andrew pearson

    If this system had a like button that would be pushed so many times!
     
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