Can my old PC run my server?

Discussion in 'Bukkit Discussion' started by EC ARCTIC FIRE, Mar 15, 2014.

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  1. Offline

    Bobcat00

    What motherboard do you have?
     
  2. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    a asus CM5775
     
  3. Offline

    Sycholic

    no Wifi lemme broaden that statement. NO ROUTERS!
    sorry but regardless what anyone says a router in a box will never handle the traffic of any server 'properly' its not powerful enough compared to a computer (unless maybe you made a cubie truck into a router) and even worse most routers now having built in firewalls and on top of that SPI (statefull packet inspection ie, it has to examine each data packet) which just makes it even worse on lag and response times.
    mbaxter makes a great point bringing up linux/unix. because infact you can just make that a 'real router' and on top of that your server... Your professional hosting companies dont use box routers they use a real computer for that... If your really serious about hosting your server, linux is a nice way to go and they have made most flavours install very easy now... its not like the old command line linux us old farts are grown up on. 2 network cards, a hub, NAT and your in rolling. and whats even better about linux is if you really get into it, making a nice tiny kernel that'l only use up like 1/2 a gig to run the whole OS leaving ya with plenty of ram for as someone said a RAM drive and the server. (unless ya got a SSD already then dont matter)

    But regardless a router in a box ARE NOT designed for multiple 'inbound' conections unless maybe you have a very 'high end' professional/buisness router.

    As for your bandwidth.. you got plenty. as for proof on this I'll tell you the numbers when I get back going to do some bandwidth tests then I can get ya some exact numbers
     
  4. Offline

    Alshain01

    I run a 10-person server on just slightly higher specs (E6750 w/ 8GB) than that with Windows 7 installation. Works just fine. I also tweaked down Windows 7 though. Turn off visual effects and go back to the classic grey for starters, that eats a ton. After that, find a service guide and start shutting off stuff you know you don't need. You don't need any extra hardware I don't have an SSD or SATA3, in fact mine no longer has a video card at all, I use remote desktop only.

    For what he is doing, a router is fine. Mine is behind a router, no issues at all. Now, I do agree no wifi. I made that mistake because the PCI bus on the motherboard I have died and I had a USB wifi adapter. Tons of issues, switched to a USB wired adapter, no problem at all.
     
  5. Offline

    Bobcat00

    I can't find any info on a CM5775 at all. Are you sure that's correct?
     
  6. Offline

    lycano

    Sycholic your statement about routers is bull ... if this would be the case then no one would use a router.

    Performance depends on your bandwith and connection quality like how stable your connection is and depends mainly on your upload. Many broadband connections simply do not have a good upload like > 5 mbit/s. Most likely they have just 1 Mbit or below which limits the data send to your connected clients and how many connections you can handle.

    SPI or packet filtering (routing) is not a problem. Those embedded systems are designed to handle such things!

    The latency also does not increase just because the router has a high load its most likely because the upload is full or has reached its "limit" so the router has to buffer this packet and send it again increasing the latency as latency is measured by differ the packed send and packet received time normally.... This gets worse if there is some sort of routing problem when sending back the packet over WAN ... Could be that you send a packet via router X and you get it back from far away if the sending provider does not see another route to you...

    Anyways i think i do not have to explain to you how TCP/IP works ...

    A standard router (like a fritz box) is always fine for home environments unless you need to establish many VPNs then yo need more power but you obviously also would need more bandwith ... making the statement useless since router would never be used to handle 10 VPN connections or be used in a professional environment as a firewall replacement ... In that case you would want a managed switch or another hardware appliance but also not a desktop or server system.

    ---

    About the WLAN Issue: This depends on how stable the connection is between the client and your router. If you have a weak WLAN connection for all those who want to connect to that server it will be a pain since the packets will get lost and have to be transmited again and again creating the so called "lag".

    But if you have a good signal strengh and quality you would not notice a difference. To be save you can use a cable connection of course to eliminate those effects effectively. Its recommended to do so if you want to make sure that the connection is always stable which you can't control when using wifi.
     
  7. Offline

    Sycholic

    yes Alshain01 true for a small server it can be okay but I do alot more then hosting MC and I know all too well the pitfalls of using a 'router in a box' esp now most are adding statefull packet inspection into them. example I cant host my MP3 stream from home and list to my music at work anymore because SPI sees a flood of incoming packets and just drops the connection thinking its a incomming flood attack. Just for example...

    and as for my bandwidth report no dice sadly even ubuntu dont listen to localhost and report the amount of traffic its using. I searched around the MC forums and on average most say its about 30kb/sec when loading new chunks and about 3-5 after the chunk been sent (ie the world in your visual range been loaded and rendered.) how accurate is this dunno not like too much since as you get more people online the more traffic you end up receiving because also data tracking other players is now added ontop of your own data.. This is also likely why people bitch about servers lagging when there like 40+ people in it because likely they over their host's bandwidth which leads to packet loss, block sync issues and rubberbanding.

    lycano people use routers only because they just dont know how to set up NAT nor do they wanna buy 2 NIC cards (or one additional if they have onboard) AND a hub. or they just dont want to have to pay for another IP assignment because thats all you need. Even a winblows box will naturally right out of the box be able to act as a NAT router you dont even need linux (window internet connection sharing is their name for NAT) and no its not bull, unless you got maybe a ARM based cubie truck running it. routers in a box just suck at large number of incomming connections. They always did. And if you want just security reasons alone, first routers are easily hacked, secondly NAT is not a security protocol and since your using portfowarding you cant even quote NAT as your level of security because you already bypassing it by forwarding ports or using DMZ.
    All Im saying and you cant argue with it or deny it a computer router is going to blow a router in a box away hands down any day of the week... and ontop of that you can just host your server right on that same box. Unless you spent a nice amount of $... ofc and buy something with like a 1ghz dual core.... (because your just basically buying another computer regardless)

    But anyway... the specs Eir got for his comp is plenty. however eir wants to go with networking, that computer hosting a server isnt going (well shouldnt...) be an issue....
     
  8. Offline

    Alshain01

    That's fine but he explicitly mentioned it was a 10 man private server.

    If it's ASUS it would have to be P5N for that model LGA-775 CPU.
     
  9. Offline

    lycano

    Sycholic you probably have a misconfigured firewall if packets get dropped when forwarding a port.

    Nothing will "think" its an incoming flood attack" since this is a rule that will be matched against. SPI has little to do with this. If you add a rule "forward from port a to b" why should a firewall do a stateful packet inspection? You already said "move the packet from a to b" no matter what state it has.

    (Usually) if there is no open connection (not new, related) then the packet will be dropped since packets can come in only when the connection has been made from the inside first.

    But again if this happens your firewall is misconfigured.

    ---

    ... Calculating bits and Bytes per player is not trivial as this depends on how many mobs are moving and if the player is standing still or exploring new areas which will trigger chunk generation which also results in sending such data to the client increasing bandwith usage ...

    Edit:
    You are really not saying that you can use windows as router OS while your first argument against using a router would be "routers are also easily hacked?"

    What is large? Are those connections half-open or connected?

    Source please where you state that any router is easily hacked.

    Where did i say that NAT is a security protocol? NAT is not even a protocol its a technique! I also did not say that im using porf forwarding i was assuming that you would use it since you say "im streaming" which usually involves redirecting a port to a server. If you are just streaming via http it still would be a simple port forward to an internal http server.

    Please don't mention DMZ im at a point where i must assume that you dont know what you are saying. You are using words but dont know what they mean.

    Of course i can. And your statement is totally wrong! Just because its a "computer" does not mean it will outperform an embedded system which is optimized to be a router.

    Im so sure about this that i can tell you using a fritz box or an adequate router the "self buid gateway" will not outperform a router when you compare simple layer 3 operations. It will just consume more power doing the same things in the same amount of time.

    Remember i explicitly excluded VPN connections since those will require cpu power.

    Anyways since this is getting way too offtopic im out.
     
  10. Offline

    Bobcat00

    OK, so I guessed and looked up a P5N-D, and the x16 slots are PCIe 2.0, but the x1 slots are not. So it sounds like it would work with the x16 slots (blue and black connectors).

    It still would be nice to know his exact motherboard model.
     
  11. Offline

    Sycholic

    lycano yeah I know calculating bandwidth is very dynamic more people/enties the more data needs to be sent to the clients. Why when I seen the posts naming flat out values I knew they were wrong except maybe as baseline 1 player values.
    and yeah thats what I thought but apprently it dont matter if you got forwarding or not. I wont even suggest forwarding, ya might as well use DMZ because the second you forward that port you just totaly wiped out any security NAT was offering as a side-effect. As I say in any post I suggest that, if you dont trust your computer's security then you shouldnt even be hosting because to host you have to have your network for that program open directly to the internet. DMZ's should. You would think that would bypass that just like you said but havent found nothing that says thats exactly true either...
     
  12. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Sycholic - You are posting a lot of misinformation. Please stop, if for no other reason than it being off-topic for this thread.
     
  13. Offline

    Alshain01

    Looks like it could have been P5K also, but yeah we need an exact model.
     
  14. Offline

    Sycholic

    Well Bobcat00 you just took the 1st.
     
  15. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    ok slow down guys. Cm5775 is what is labeled on the mother board and in system info. i too could not find info on the motherboard. any definite way of finding a model number for a mother board. i have the pc wired into the router
    via a 50 foot Ethernet cable. my router is a very good router. it is a ASUS RT-AC66R which handels all the smart tvs and ipods ex in the house.
     
  16. Offline

    Bobcat00

  17. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    Would it help with a pic of the mother board?
     
  18. Offline

    Bobcat00

    Sure, as long as we can read all the writing on it.
     
  19. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    sddsdsdsdsd.jpg

    View attachment 18834

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  20. Offline

    Bobcat00

    You don't have a CM5775 motherboard, you have a CM5570-AP003 computer. I can't look up the specs now (stupid Safari browser on an iPad), but I'll check further later.
     
  21. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

  22. Offline

    BlueMustache

  23. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    Are u running command blocks hooked up to red-stone clocks and a render distance of 15? my server runs with no lag on this pc unless redstone clocks are running. it also doesnt load fast. It is simply because the cpu is CRAP.

    your plugin seems to help people with little ram. this is not the problem in my cause because i have 6GB of ram.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.
     
  24. Offline

    Bobcat00

    I can't get any definitive data on the PCIe slots in that PC. We need to know the exact model of the motherboard in the PC.
     
  25. Offline

    BlueMustache


    Ok, and yes we do. Simply put, if it's a cpu problem, it's a cpu problem.
    You may want to try another try of bukkit jar. (An unnamed high performance minecraft server that's name is a synonym of a faucet)
    Also, I am also working on a new type of lag reducing plugin, that might even boost your client FPS!


    I use a wireless router all day. My computer I run my server on is a Dell Dimension 2300 Win Xp 1Gb desktop. I can hold as many players as I like, and almost no block lag.

    My computer I run my server on is a Dell Dimension 2300 Win Xp 1Gb desktop. I can hold as many players as I like, and almost no block lag.
    Oh, and my processor is an Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.00GHZ.
    Did I mention it is almost as old as I am? Atleast 10 years old (No, I'm not 10).

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  26. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    Bobcat look at the other picture that is the mother board model

    Blue mustache plz explain how your plugin works.

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  27. Offline

    Bobcat00

    I don't see the motherboard model there. It would be silkscreened on the board (not a sticker) and be something like P5QL-VM EPU.
     
  28. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    ok ill check

    i could not find anything like that

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2016
  29. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    its a ghost mother board lol
     
  30. Offline

    EC ARCTIC FIRE

    i have decided that this pc is not fit for the job of running my server. parts of it will be used in the server pc that i will make. i will get a i3 for this one
     
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