Vanish No Packet - Appeal to Open Source

Discussion in 'Bukkit Help' started by Brady_, Apr 20, 2013.

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  1. Offline

    Brady_

    I've been reading a bunch of threads regarding Vanish No Packet's lightning/explosion/smoke "feature" when toggling visibility, and I'm baffled why the plugin creator refuses to add an option in the config to disable this. Everything I read sounds like he's just being stubborn. If you search Google for "Vanish No Packet d" the first suggested thing is "Vanish No Packet disable effects". It's obvious people want an easier way to disable that annoying crap. Who even likes that "feature" being enabled by default? It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

    The advice given to remove it is to negate your permissions nodes, but even the creator admits every permissions plugin is different and to refer to your permissions documentation on how to do it. Wouldn't it be way easier for your users if you would just stop being so stubborn and add a way to disable it in the config, like most good plugins do when they have options that many people don't like? It's like you failed to realize the fact that most servers admins will have the wild card enabled on their admin accounts, and/or because YOU loved this moronic lightning/explosion/smoke "feature"so much you decided to force it on by default. Absolutely retarded.

    Do everyone a favor and make your plugin open-source so people can easily tweak it the way most people would like it to be. Since you REFUSE to add an option to disable this "feature" in the config I'll gladly take a shot at it.
     
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    afistofirony

    Brady_ Yes, it's not the most liked feature of VNP, but it has its place and is there for admins who want the feature. That being said, a config option to disable it is definitely not a bad idea. But suggesting it in such a harsh manner ("moronic lightning/explosion/smoke ... absolutely retarded") isn't the best way to go.

    Also, VanishNoPacket is open source: https://github.com/mbax/vanishnopacket/

    I've tagged the author of the plugin for you: mbaxter
     
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    TheOnlyRealTGS

    This should not be posted here.. This is a forum for people that need help, not a forum for feature requests for plugins
     
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    Wat.

    The feature is disabled by default. You have to explicitly enable it to get it, and yet you complain.


    Please drop the abrasive attitude.
     
    Jeyge likes this.
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    Brady_

    I'm just entirely fed up at this point, especially after reading thread after thread of users explaining how much trouble they are having with this "feature" and the developer just going "heh, learn how to negate your permissions". Really?

    I didn't see any mention of the source on the plugin's Bukkit page. That's really all I wanted out of this, thank you.

    I just made it in the forum where I saw some of the other threads regarding this problem. Apologies if it's in the wrong place.

    Uh, yeah, it's "disabled by default" unless you have the wildcard in your permissions, and unless you're on a creative/free for all server (or really, even if you are), what admin doesn't have this?

    EDIT by Moderator: merged posts, please use the edit button instead of double posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2016
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    evilmidget38

    Brady_ Anyone who doesn't use PEX.
     
    EvilJackCarver likes this.
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    EvilJackCarver

    I don't because OP gives me most of the permissions I need and the ones I do that it doesn't I can easily add it in. The asterisk perm node gives you everything, even some you don't need. It all depends on application, quite frankly I like the smoke effect because it startles who I'm behind when I unvanish behind them after catching them do something.

    To be fair, I can see it having a use if you are the server owner, but it depends person-to-person. I don't like my admins able to op people, so I don't have them OPed in the first place.

    The asterisk [sub-node] I don't like to use, and while I'll admit I do sometimes use it, I didn't mind having to negate the perms - if you know what you are doing it shouldn't be a problem.
     
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    Placing the "*" node, which is a specific node to a few permissions plugins which hack it into the server, in your configuration is explicitly stating you want every permissions node even if the plugin author thinks the node shouldn't be granted by default. What you're looking for, is OP status not the * node. With OP status you get every node except those that plugin authors have explicitly stated should not be granted by default (Such as the effects outlined above in VanishNoPacket, which are false for OP by default).
     
  9. Offline

    Brady_

    I'd say that's the majority. I could be wrong, but either way it's obvious that many, many people are having issues with this feature.

    Also,
    This is definitely not the first time this suggestion has been brought up, which is one of the reasons why I'm so frustrated. Even if I had worded this less abrasively I would have received the same response from him that others who WERE civil about it got- "learn how to negate your permissions".

    That's not the point at all. It's about being receptive to suggestions and making the lives of your users easier instead of just writing their concerns off.

    That's a good distinction to make, and something I didn't even realize.

    I'm the only "admin" / "op" on my server, and I have a separate account with regular permissions for playing, and my moderators have limited permissions. My admin account has the wild card enabled so I don't have to worry about fooling with my admin permissions. I just never realized what mbaxter said above and as such never thought of how it would adversely affect me.
     
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    evilmidget38

    Brady_
    The fact that you're given the node because of the * node is one of the inherent faults of PEX. Even if you were an op you wouldn't have that permission node. You can't blame mbaxter because PEX doesn't follow the Bukkit system of permissions. It's a fault in PEX, not in Bukkit or his plugin.

    Furthermore, you ask regarding negating permissions. The only reason you'd have to negate the permission is if you gave yourself it, which you did with the * node(which gives you every permission node, even the ones you don't want). So what you're saying can be paraphrased with "I need a config option because I gave myself a permission node I don't want".
     
    EvilJackCarver likes this.
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    Brady_

    That's fair.
     
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    It feels like the only way you'd feel I'm being "receptive to suggestions" would be if I gave in and gave a second way of disabling things. That's not how being receptive to suggestions works, that's giving in to every whim of a vocal minority. :(

    The reason I do not provide a second way of disabling the feature is because that would only result in user confusion for someone trying to enable it. The system I provide is to set nearly every feature of VanishNoPacket to disabled by default, and then allow for selective enabling of features via permission nodes. Doing it through permission nodes allows for user-level flexibility instead of just blanket enabling or disabling a feature across the entire server.

    The only time I find complaints about this system is the following two situations:
    1. The user has the * node, and is upset to discover everything is enabled. The user does not know that he can negate the nodes he doesn't want, nor that he can just remove the * node and manually define the nodes he wants.
    2. The user has the * node, and is upset to discover everything is enabled. The user actively refuses to do anything about it, because it's my job to design the plugin around his use of a plugin-specific hack.
    The first situation is curable through educating the user about their options and guiding them to their permissions plugin's documentation for further instruction (As I'm not about to learn the dozen permissions plugins configs when their documentation covers it already). Plenty of users aren't aware of the full capabilities of their permissions plugins, and often don't know what the * node does compared to how they expect things to work. I believe strongly in pointing users in the right direction to learn more about the things they play with.

    The second situation is not worth worrying about as that user is the sort you kick out of parties for peeing in the punch.
     
    Brady_ likes this.
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    Brady_

    Yeah, you're absolutely right. My whole argument fell apart when you told me about how the wild-card really works, and as such this is entirely my fault. I'm sorry, I admit I was wrong.
     
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    mbaxter ʇıʞʞnq ɐ sɐɥ ı

    I still like you!

    It's surprising how little information is available on the most dangerous permission node. :(
     
    Brady_ and EvilJackCarver like this.
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